Strategies for Handling Setbacks in Ultras w/Garrett Fredrick of The Trail Trash Podcast

Speaker 1: 0:00

All right, most of us have DNFed an event. I know I have but what are the emotional and mental impacts of struggling in or not finishing a race? How do you analyze those experiences to understand what went wrong and really how you might improve or avoid it the next time around? Are you interested in learning some helpful strategies to bounce back after setbacks or in difficult moments during a race? Well, stay tuned, because we get into that and more here in this next episode. Welcome back to the Choose to Enjoy podcast, the show that's to go to for the back of the pack Ultra Runners. Join us as we explore uplifting stories, interviews, gear and training tips, all tailored to the unsung heroes at the back end of the Ultra Universe. My name is Richard Gleeve. I've been ultra running since 2017, finishing numerous ultra distances in the US and over in the UK, all the way up through 200 miles. I'm a qualified US Ultra Running coach and I am unashamedly a member of the back of the pack, just like you. Now, with us today to share his insights is Mr Garrett. Frederick Garrett overcame some pretty rough depression in high school and turned to endurance sports as an outlet for that. As an ultra runner, he's batting 500 on his 100 mile attempts thus far and for those of you in the UK that's 50% and would classify himself as an aspiring mid packer who somehow still ends up fighting cutoffs. And if he sounds familiar, that might be because he's also one of three co-hosts of the very excellent Trail Trash podcast another ultra running podcast out there. So he's going to help us out with the discussion today, share his experiences and hopefully we'll come away with some great tools that we can use next time you find the need to stay strong and run long out on the trails. So don't go anywhere. We're about to jump in.

Speaker 2: 2:04

Discover wrong. Inspiring stories from runners who've been right where you are this is the choose to endure ultra running podcast with your host he's English, not Australian Richard Gleeve.

Speaker 1: 2:23

Alright Garrett, thanks so much for taking a break from Trail Trash and joining us on the show over here at Choose to Endure. To get into this topic, Can you start by taking us through what initially attracted you to the sport of ultra running and how your relationship with it has evolved over time?

Speaker 3: 2:43

Yeah, sure, richard. Thanks for the glowing introduction. Man, I don't. Hey, that's like best man quality speech right there. Thanks for that, I appreciate it. The invoice is in the mail. Hey, that's alright, I owe you for it. So honestly, man, the thing that got me into it is I'm just stubborn and stupid. And someone told me one time hey, I bet you can't do it. So and you mentioned, you know, the my kind of rough high school era, if you will, for all the Swifty fans out there it was just very much one of those. Someone said you can't do it and I said great, let me prove you wrong. I've been fighting and proving people wrong my whole life. So why not take a stab at the 100 mile distance and this thing called ultra running and trail and figure that out? So what initially attracted me to it is someone said I can't do it.

Speaker 1: 3:30

Oh man.

Speaker 3: 3:31

And I said, okay, bets on some when and where.

Speaker 1: 3:33

Did you jump straight into 100 or did you kind of do the gradual build up that a lot of folks do out there?

Speaker 3: 3:39

So I was smart enough to do the gradual build up. So yeah, yeah, and I was never a runner. So I guess, I guess I should say I was a college athlete. I played college soccer Wonderful. I remember your fan base across the pond there. You know proper football, Absolutely Proper football. But I was never the fastest on the team and I was never the most endured endurance, I guess on the team. I was always the strongest on the team. That was kind of my thing. And I also was an official for the sport. I got pretty high up on the ladder for that. Oh, really. Doing all the way up to semi pro games. So not only was I strong enough, but I was smart enough to know how to hide it too. So if you came and played fullback on our team and the guy who played on the opposite side on our team, if you came at us, you were going against the fastest player in conference or one of the strongest players in conference who was smart enough to hide the foul. So we were coming away with bruises one of the two of us and it probably wasn't going to be me and I was okay with that. So. But yet I honestly I hated running my whole life. And then what got me into running was we had a kid and I made the mistake. I thought it was the cheaper of the two than a gym membership. Yeah, I was a muscle head, right, I was one of those guys that in those old planet fitness commercials where you see the guy that has the water jug and he just says I lift things up and put them down. That's kind of all I did Nice. But then I found out you know how expensive diapers are and I was like man, gym membership diapers, one of these has to go. But I have to do something, I have to have my outlet. So I turned to running because I thought, okay, great, you just need shorts, shirt, shoes, cool. And then I found out that I was like a pretty easy investment. And then there came race fees, and then there came nutrition, and then there came all these other things. I tell you, yeah Right, I did do the gradual step. I started with the 5k and then never did a 10k jump to a 15k, which is a really odd distance.

Speaker 2: 5:30

Yeah, that's a strange one.

Speaker 1: 5:32

Why not?

Speaker 3: 5:32

just round you out to the even 10 miles for the American folks, you know and then never, still never, done a road half or a road full. I just jumped straight into a trail full marathon as a training run for a 50k, which was a training run for what I call my first ultra, which was 100k black Canyon, 100k out in Arizona out there. That's a tough first ultra. So that was my first ultra and then it's just kind of been the bit the bug ever since. I saw this thing called Western States and have been chasing entries ever since. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:08

When I played soccer, I used to play left back, you know, left back in the changing room, and that was my position.

Speaker 3: 6:15

That was left back in the changing room. That's clever.

Speaker 1: 6:20

So you built up to your 100 mile as a black Canyon ultra. That's a pretty tough one for a first 100k attempt up there. But specific to your first 100 mile race attempts, we said in the intro you're kind of batting 500. So tell us about your first 100 mile attempt. What was it first of all and what were your expectations going in? And how did the reality then compare against what you were or weren't expecting when you got into that first 100 mile?

Speaker 3: 6:49

Sure, so my first, my 200 mile attempts so I'm one for two here have both been the same race. Ah, so I was here in Tennessee, which is where I live, and it's called no Business 100. And the reason I did it twice is every year they change directions on the course and so if you do both directions you get a double buckle. So it's a bigger buckle, it's fancier, it's got some gold outlines and all this stuff. So we all chased the buckle right. So that's why I went back the year after. So, to answer your question, what brought me into that race is the 50 mile I did. My first 50 mile was called Dark Sky 50. It's in the same place, but I'm kind of a nerd and I love astronomy, and so this the start finish line for this race is in a certified dark sky, yeah, which is why that 50 mile is called Dark Sky 50. So if you've never seen like a true dark sky, you look up and you see things that you didn't know existed, like there are some really cool things that you see when you are in essentially pitch black. But I didn't really have any expectations. My only expectation was to give it my best right. It's a good race. The race directors it's a husband and wife and they are some of the most top notch people I've ever met. So I was like, cool, I'll run your race. They do a bunch of other races now too and I kind of either try to volunteer or sign up for some of those races if I can. I just haven't been able to make it Much of either of those happened, unfortunately, just with my own scheduling. But yeah, I honestly didn't have any expectations other than it was just going to hurt and let's just see if we can give it a good old try, right? Yeah, finished my first one and so went back and thought I had everything figured out and didn't. I ended up running out of time at mile 72, I think, is the mileage that I came in 12 minutes late on that one. So in each race was very different. You know, the finish was different and harder in ways than the DNF. One was the DNF one's kind of my own fault, and we'll get into that if you want. I'm about why I DNF'd, if you will. But I didn't really have any expectations, like I said, other than that it was going to hurt, and you know the phrase that they say with marathons, you go to hell once and then you come back. Well, in ultras, as you know, especially your 200s, you probably make four or five trips down to hell. Oh dude, yeah, it's just to try to fight your way back. So I was fully prepared with that and it was very much one of those. You know, someone said I can't do this. So here we go, let's, let's show some people that we can. So yeah, so those are the 200 miles I've done and I actually go back. That's my A race this year. I volunteered at it last year, which, if you've never volunteered at a race, richard, I mean you absolutely have to. Yeah, you see a completely different side of everything, of what goes on, and next time you go into an eight station, you have a greater appreciation for those volunteers, for sure.

Speaker 1: 9:41

Oh yeah, volunteering is a tough gig, you know. I've run a lot of races as a runner, crewed a little bit and I volunteered a little bit. Both of those activities, crewing and volunteering totally different perspective from a race. Yeah, I would agree with you. And just on the dark sky stuff, the first 200 that well, actually the second 200 that I ran was up in Nebraska and that's actually a dark sky area too. Oh, nice, and I totally understand what you're what you're saying. I spent three, four nights running through through that and I was. We were lucky enough to see a lunar eclipse, which is super cool. So I saw a lunar eclipse and a comet shower, nice, through the dark skies of Nebraska. And then, just this past October, I was crewing out at Moab and while we were crewing I saw a solar eclipse. So now I've seen, within the space of maybe a year, I've seen a lunar eclipse and a solar eclipse and a comet shower, all while out on a trail at a race, which I thought was really cool, like you know, to see the solar and lunar eclipse almost back to back. I mean I would never expected that. But the dark sky stuff. When you look up and I was up over 10,000 feet at night at Moab you look up to the sky, you can see the Milky Way as clear as I mean. It's just beautiful. It's a totally different way to see the sky out at Moab. And then the dark stuff in Nebraska, like you're saying, is super cool too. So, yeah, absolutely love that Super part of running that people don't really appreciate.

Speaker 3: 11:19

I don't know if you could ever get me to crew again, right, yeah, you know. You mentioned crewing man. I've crewed a couple of times and when it comes down to crewing or running the hundred, I'd run the hundred 12 out of 10 times. Crewing is so stressful, it's very stressful, it really is man.

Speaker 1: 11:36

It's a whole different ballgame crewing, trying to get yourself to where you need to be for your five minute change, you know, with your person, and then they're off, but all the stuff that goes on behind that, that's well worth an episode. At some point Maybe I'll do a whole crew episode, because there's loads to get into from a crewing perspective. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 11:54

Do you have a set crew that you use every time?

Speaker 1: 11:56

No, I actually. For me personally, I try to go without a crew if I can, because I feel really guilty. Having done it and knowing what it like, I feel guilty at having other people running around after me. I just it worries me and I feel like that's too much of a distraction while I'm running, knowing that I need to be there because other people are doing all this stuff for me in the background. I just I'm like, nah, that's too much stress for me, unless I really feel like I need a crew so a big 200, something like Moab or a Coca-Cola or whatever I might take a crew or at least ask a crew. And typically there's a financial aspect to that too. If you're asking a crew to go, you're going to be paying most, if not all, of their expenses to get there, and that's, I mean, that, makes a race really expensive, especially the big races. You know you're already paying 1500 bucks.

Speaker 3: 12:45

Oh, absolutely, Especially if you're running those 200s. I know the entry fee on those guys isn't. It's a pretty penny.

Speaker 1: 12:52

It's not cheap. You throw your crew on top of that and it can get expensive real quick. So back to your failed no business. So what were some of the challenges you faced during that race that maybe you didn't face or were not there? I guess during the first one that you did finish.

Speaker 3: 13:12

So the biggest thing was it came down to nutrition, and it wasn't that I wasn't eating, and I will never, ever ever fault an aid station worker, but I think what happened was so the nutrition that they had on the course. They use a product called SWORD. It's very similar in chemical makeup to scratch, which is what I primarily use for my own personal hydration nutrition all those things. And I've used SWORD before. It's nice. It's fine, like I said, very similar to scratch. So it doesn't leave not to knock tailwind, but tailwind leaves my mouth coated in sugar and I just don't really like that. These other two are just a little bit cleaner in my experience. And again, not knocking tailwind. Tailwind's great, I've used it before and it's fine. But I would come into an aid station on my second attempt and say, ok, what flavor SWORD is this? Because if it's grape, I'm just going to go without. I just I don't like grape flavored things. They remind me of my childhood, and cough syrup, right. So I'd come in and say what flavor SWORD is this? And they'd say, oh, it's apple, orange and something else, which is fine. If you're mixing flavors, that's OK. I like, I get it. We'll get a little fruit punch vibe going.

Speaker 1: 14:18

That's cool.

Speaker 3: 14:20

But I think what was happening is they would get down to a certain point, realize that the cooler is low, fill it up and treat it as if it was a completely empty cooler. So they're putting in more salt and more electrolytes than I was actually accounting for. So I would come in and take this flask and drink the whole flask. I had a coach and he's like, hey, this is what you do and that's fine, and I followed my nutrition and game like we wrote it all out and followed it to a tee. But I think what was happening is I had too much electrolyte and I eventually I got sick.

Speaker 1: 14:56

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:57

And I could not keep anything down. Water was coming back up. Anything I tried to eat would sit down for a second, and then I'm off on the side of the trail making feeding some ants over there, kind of thing. But it came down to that. And so at one point and it's the overnight part my wife, who is always my crew, and my pacer were waiting for me at mile 60. And I was supposed to be there no later than 11 30. I was four hours late getting there, and at that point you're automatically fighting cutoffs at that point, if you're, if you're that far behind, and it got to the point where I hadn't eaten anything. That stayed down for almost five hours. And so we came into the aid station my wife, you know. They found me, rather than I found them, because some other runners had gone ahead and let the doctor know. Hey, there's a guy who's sick, who's coming in, he's going to need some help. Shout out to the trail running community man, I've never been a part of a group that looks out for other runners, like ultra runners do. I'm sure that it happens in other groups, but not in my experience, not to the extent that trail and ultra runners will look out for other runners, right. So I came in doctor, found me. He I must have some sort of face, because he looked at me and said you're the sick one, aren't you? I said, yeah, I am. He goes. Well, it's about time you get here. Yeah, like gee. I appreciate it. So he sat me down yeah, he sat me down and gave me a Zofran, which was able to at least calm everything down. My pacer looked at me my wife's coming over and she said some things and we end up making the decision that you know I'll never forget what my pacer said. He said you know, garrett, you can do this. It will be the hardest thing you've ever done to date. And if you want to go, we have to go now, and it's only you who can make that call. So I said all right. So I look at him and said, all right, john, well, I drug you out here. So I got to at least get your six miles in, because at that part of the race it's a little six mile loop that you go do before you cross a bridge and hit the main trail again. So we went out and did the loop, but I was so far in a calorie deficit that, even though I was able to choke a couple things down, there's no way that I was going to be able to catch up. And when you're already fighting cutoffs, a 19 minute mile isn't going to make up any ground. So we go out, we do the loop and, as we're coming back in, he looks at me. He said Garrett, what's the call? I said John, man, we're going to get here and we're going to have like two minutes. You know it's it's not worth it, you know like, let's just lick, let me lick my wounds, We'll be okay, We'll figure it out. But I just I don't see a point in going on. Yeah. And he said all right, that's, that's probably the smart call. And then my stubbornness kicked in. So so I see my wife, we're coming into the aid station, she comes over and she said Garrett, what's the call? And I just start crying because I like there is one thing that I hate more than anything else, and it's quitting. I hate feeling like I left something out there. So I start crying and I'm like Joe, honey, her name is Johanna, but I call her Joe. I said, Joe, honey, I just I can't. Everything hurts, I can't keep anything down, there's no point in going on, but I'll see you at the next aid station. And I turn and I look at John who's mooching off the scraps, because we came in with like, like I said, we were maybe less than five minutes, so the aid station's all cleaned up. There's, like scraps left and he's picking through scraps trying to find a couple of snacks. I said, John, let's go. And he goes oh, oh, shit, we're doing this. Oh, okay. So he like grabs a couple more things and we head on out across the bridge and he goes. What happened? I said, John, I can't quit, I can't. If there's time on the clock, I can't quit. So we kept my 19 minute pace going and it was just a nice brisk little walk in the woods. We were able to see the sunrise together and, like I said, came into mile 72, about 12 minutes too late.

Speaker 1: 19:01

So yeah, but that's awesome. I mean getting out there and giving it a go. I mean you didn't quit, you just missed the time. That happened to me once and I felt much better about it afterwards. And that's kind of part this being an episode on setbacks and resilience. So what did you do at that point? Were there specific changes or adjustments that, when you look back, that you made in your training or a strategy? Or how did you approach that, knowing that maybe it was the sword that kind of took that chance away? Or, looking back, did you think, yeah, that's got to be it. Or was there anything else that you came up with? That might have been it, but maybe these things contributed in hindsight too.

Speaker 3: 19:40

Well, so yes and no. So we did my debrief with my coach Three weeks before the race. It was my last long run before you start your real taper, right Coming down, because I like a three week taper. I know that typical tapers are two weeks. I just I know my body and I need that that three week just to really get ready. So I'm coming down this hill. It's a hill that I've run a million times because it's not too far from the house and it's a trail and it's just, it's an easy route for me to run because I can park my car at the parking lot. I run to the end of the trail where it runs into a subdivision and it's 2.53 miles, so I don't have to carry a lot. So I turn around, run back and I get my little five mile loop in. So I like running there. And I've run down this hill, like I said numerous times, and something just felt off and so I called my coach that night. He said send me a picture of where it hurts. You know, I think I have an idea, but I'm not a PT, I'm not a doctor, but you know, with the amount of knowledge that he has from coaching and his own races that he's run. He's like you know. I think I have an idea and he's like you know. I think you may have the start of it's either shin splints or a stress fracture, and so the only way you can tell if it's a stress fracture is you got to go to the doctor. So I made an appointment on Monday, went to see this doctor. We ended up diagnosing it as tibialis tendonitis. So the tendon that runs across the front of the shin was just inflamed. But that was three weeks before the race and I'm like man, there's no way that this just happened. There's no way. I spent 18 weeks of my life getting ready for this, just for the last three weeks to basically be washed. But yeah, so he. You know, we did x-rays. He goes. I am 100% confident it is not a stress fracture. He's looking at my shin bones, he goes you've been running your whole life like I can tell, because your bone deposits. You're like you've got a strong shin bone here. It's not that at all. Pretty sure it's. You know, tibialis tendonitis or whatever it is. And he sent me to a PT and I went to this physical therapist and the first meeting I had with him he said, yeah, so I've got some notes here from Dr Loesch, so we're getting ready for a race. How far? I said 100 miles, he said. When I said three weeks, I said here, I thought this was gonna be easy. Okay, I said, doc, I just need you to get me to the start line. You get me ready for the start line, I'll figure it out from there. But honestly, so until about mile 68, that didn't bother me at all. I went to see him four times a week. We would do acupuncture, strength stretching, theragun, all these things. We were just hitting it with everything. And if you never had acupuncture, it's interesting. It's a very interesting form of treatment.

Speaker 1: 22:19

I did dry needling recently which is sort of it's along the same lines as acupuncture.

Speaker 3: 22:24

But yeah, that was really very simple.

Speaker 1: 22:25

Yeah it was really weird, but it worked in my glute same sort of thing, just very, very strange with the electrodes on them and I was like this is the weirdest sensation. But yeah, it helped me for sure.

Speaker 3: 22:35

Yeah, yeah, and so that's that's what got me right to the combination of the in. You mentioned dry needling. I don't know how many people know, so I just always call it acupuncture, because everyone knows what acupuncture is. But you're right, it is dry needling and he would do it all across and he'd just leave those needles in for five minutes and then take them out, and there we go. So there was a possibility that that could have been, but, like I said, it wasn't. We used KT tape and I know that there's different sciences behind it and whether it works or doesn't, but hey, in my mind, if it's going to help me, I'm going to use it. So, whether it's placebo or not, so we use KT tape. And it wasn't until late in the race that that particular part of my body even bothered me. When I did my debrief with my coach. Really, the only thing that we were able to find point and come to was the possibility of too much electrolyte. And the one thing about this particular course is when you reach I think it's mile 26, all the way to 60, there are aid stations, but there's only one crew access aid station along the way. Okay, and it's closer to 26 than it is to 60. So I tended just the direction they ran the race this year. I hit that at about the time that most people are going to sleep and that 50, it's a 50 K stretch of trail with only one crew point. But that crew point ends at a major aid station where you can also have a camp site because it's at a camp ground. So I told my wife the first year. I said, look, there's nothing that you can do overnight anyway, because there's this one spot and it's way down a service road. I've got enough to worry about. I don't want you getting lost in the middle of the night in a woods where there is zero cell service. So do me a favor, Just go to the campsite, get your eight hours of sleep and I'll be there about 637 o'clock. So she went, she got her whole night's sleep, she was rested, recovered and all that stuff and ready to tackle the next day. But going this way it's a little different. So there's that 50 K stretch where I choose, for better or worse, to live off aid stations Because I just don't want to carry that many individual packets of scratch. I mean, you know what it's like when you're carrying a bunch of stuff. It's uncomfortable, it could cause a friction point if you're not using the right kind of stuff on your skin without all this added weight. So I just chose and again, having you soared and being familiar with it and knowing that it sits well in my stomach, let's just live off aid stations. So I think that was my big mistake was living off aid stations. So my plan of attack this year is not to live off the aid stations just use their water.

Speaker 1: 25:11

Yeah, and I have to say too just you talked about tailwind earlier. I mean, I still am a big fan of tailwind, but over a couple of years that I've been using that, I've run into the sort of something of a similar challenge in that now when I use it, even with the prescribed dosage, after a while it makes me nauseous, really sick, and so I've had to cut it out completely and just go to water with salt tabs. Just go get some, you know some basic salt tabs and look for those in a aid station.

Speaker 3: 25:40

But yeah, mid-race yeah salt stick is good too. They've got the juice that are pretty tasty.

Speaker 1: 25:45

Absolutely. Those are the tabs that I go with, the salt stick stuff. But yeah, I've had to cut out tailwind totally in the past two races and just go back to water and watermelon or whatever. You know, whatever they've got, but very cool. So it looks like. I mean, you seem like you have naturally the right attitude for coming into ultra running. You can't do it, I'm going to go do it, kind of attitude which lends itself well to mental toughness. But you know, how have you developed? And well, really, how have you developed additional mental toughness and how do you maintain that?

Speaker 3: 26:22

There's a couple different ways that I kind of maintain that myself, and one of them is you can have the best crew, you can have the best coach, you can have the best Pacers, but they're not the ones that are putting the foot on the ground. It's you and at the end of the day, it's only you, and so it's very much a in my mind. If it is to be, it's up to me. I love it, yeah, and so I have to be the one to go and do these things because, like I said, you can have the best crew, but they're not the one running the miles, and it's very much just this. If someone's going to do it, it might as well be me. So let me go do this, let me take that burden off, and it's not a burden on anyone. I put the burden on ourself. You know we do. When we sign up for these things, we know exactly what we're getting into, and I'm sure we'll touch on it later. My five year old is my inspiration for everything, and she I have to show her that, yeah, life's tough and if you do the work, you can do it, and this is what it looks like. And so one day, when I'm not here because death is undefeated and she'll come through a hard time. Maybe she'll say you know what? Dad did these things and he showed me how to do this and that's how you get it done. And at the end of the day it's just doing it and, yeah, it hurts and every step towards the ladder of a hundred is gonna be at some point is gonna be screaming in pain, but someone somewhere is watching you and it's up to you to show them that it can be done, whether that's good or bad that you push through those things like that, because there are times where you may have a Actual injury and my stubborn pride is gonna keep saying, no, it's fine, your body is just telling you to stop, push through it. And then next thing, you know, I've got a pretty big vet medical bill of some kind because I was too stupid. But For better or worse, it's just very much a. If it is to be, it's up to me and I'm the one that has to do this and it's kind of almost. It hasn't always been that way. Like I said, I've been proving people wrong only because for a lot of my childhood, a Lot of people counted me out and discounted me and said you know what he's, not what it is he's. He doesn't have what it takes and it's almost. It's almost a coping mechanism that I gave myself of this stubborn pride and being like okay, let me show you that I can't, let me prove to you that I can do this. And so it's almost a middle finger to everyone that's told me I can't yeah. And so on Monday, when we do our Metal Monday pictures, I can just sit there and say, ha ha, you told me I can't look what I just did. What else do you have that I can't do?

Speaker 1: 29:26

Yeah, absolutely so, whether that's good or bad, and that's that's my coping mechanism for it all anyway, I totally agree and, and I'm very with you, with my son here, you know, I think this world we live in I mean I grew up in the 80s and we would go outside and we run around and there is no phones, there is no Xbox or none of that I just feel like this, this generation of young kids, everything is so convenient and everything is done for them and we were talking about school before we came on too. I mean that even the school is sort of lowering the level so that everybody feels included and while I understand that, I think for me it it doesn't put some of the struggles in front of them that I know I had to go through as a kid and so when I had to go through them, I had to learn how to cope. Like like you were saying, I'm I'm not sure if this generation is getting that Opportunity to learn how to cope because everything is made very convenient for them. I mean, hell, you can even you know you can order food off your phone these days and, you know, have it delivered to your door. I mean you don't have to go out to get stuff. So I just but yeah, showing my child that hey, even at age 49, I can still be an idiot and go complete a 200 mile race. I mean I have no business doing that. I'm not an elite runner, but I can still get it done. So I love that attitude and I think I think you're you're right on. So if you were talking to other back-of-the-pack runners which is the audience that we're talking about here what advice would you give to them? You know those folks who are maybe struggling with, with setbacks and failures in their own running, ultra running journeys. Are there any strategies that you might have for Dealing with the negative thoughts that invariably come up every single time you go out for a run, really of any length it can be it doesn't have to be a hundred miles, but sure. What is some advice you might have for them and do you have any strategies for tackling negative thoughts during runs.

Speaker 3: 31:30

So one of the things that worked well for me at black Canyon because I went out there without a crew and I know you talked about not going, so this is what worked for me at my first ultra, my wife this was five years ago, so my daughter was not even. I only think she was a year. She was coming up on a year, so there's no way that she was gonna be able to go One of the things that worked for me is I put pictures in my drop bags of my family and I put individual. I put certain pictures at certain drop bags because then I knew, okay, great, I get to see my daughter Three more times, I've got to see my daughter three more times, and so I would come to my drop bag, get out what I need and take those pictures and keep it with me and that way when things got hard, I would I never pulled them out, but I wouldn't. I knew that they were in my vest, so I would just tap my vest and be like she's here with me, like my wife's here, my daughter's here. I put a couple other race photos of some other finishes just to remind myself hey, you did these. You, you can keep going and do this one. So those are little things that worked for me Counting down pictures of how many times, how many more times I get to see my family. Before the finish line, where I had a big, there were a bunch of pictures in that drop bag because it was the finish line. Drop it so you could put whatever you want in that one. Yeah, you'd have to keep it to the year. You know your gallon-sized hip-lock bag where space is pretty minimal but it also comes down to. It's very hard to not let those negative thoughts creep in. And one thing that I've started doing, and it's very David Goggins ask you signed up for this. Yeah, you wanted this, and it's kind of who's who else, but you is gonna do this. Like you, you're the one that has to do this. You, you wanted this. Here it is. This is what you signed up for. That's what I signed up for. I wanted to see how hard it was. At one point. I wanted to see how far I could push myself. Maybe there's a 200-miler in the books one day, probably, I don't know. You, I never rule anything out at this point because I never thought I'd run a marathon, let alone a hundred miles so, but it's very much, like you know, in some of his videos you get, you know, these clips where he's yelling who's gonna carry the boats, which is part of his Navy SEAL stuff.

Speaker 1: 33:43

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 33:44

I am. I'm here like yeah, I signed up for this, like I know, like I knew that this was gonna happen. But when it comes down to when you're fighting cutoffs, that almost doesn't work anymore, because it's almost like the joy of running the distance at that point is gone. It's it's long gone, and now you're so stressed about making sure that you're moving fast enough. And what works for me in those times is I'll pick something out Not too far ahead that it's like way, way down 100 to 200 steps. Okay, let's just get there, and you know, let's move a little bit faster to that point, and then you pick something else out. I was talking to someone else at one of my jobs and he was counting arm swings. He's like, all right, let's run for these, these 150 arm swings. And he was every right arm, yeah, so one, two, three. He's like, all right, now, now I can walk for a little bit and then, all right, let's run for 150 more swings. So there's little things like that, that kind of distract your mind From everything that's gonna keep coming at you. And one of the things that I'm sure everyone who listens has dealt with is when those negative thoughts come in, of why am I here? Am I good enough? Can I keep going? The best thing to do is, for me, is focus on what's right in front of me. I don't focus on the next aid station if it's six miles away when I'm just barely getting out of this one. Let me focus on where my next foot hits, and and then the one after that, and the one after that, because when you look at it as a grand overall hundred mile distance, that's a long time. Yeah a hundred miles in the grand scheme of things isn't that far, but that's a lot of time on your feet and it can be very, very, very overwhelming when you look at it that way. But when you break it down to Either aid station to aid station, it's only six miles. Well, how many days, how many times have you run six miles? Yeah, that's pretty easy. I'm gonna go do that right now, you know, and when you and if you have to, how many times have I run a hundred steps? That's easy. I got that like we can do that. And so you break it down into these little achievable victories and stack those victories and next thing you know, you're at that aid station 15 minutes ahead of cutoff instead of five minutes ahead of cutoff. You get a little more breathing room at that point. All right, cool, let's count a hundred more steps. Let's just, let's just keep this little interval style run going. Next thing, you know you're 20, 25 minutes ahead of cutoffs. For me, breaking it down into achievable victories is what works best to block out the negativity and I'm gonna choke up every time I talk about this. But it's my first 100 mile right and I come into mile 82, and I'm not doing these achievable victories at this point. This is that's a relatively two or three year new concept for me and I've put in a lot of work mentally in myself to kind of get to that point. But I come into the mile 82 aid station. My wife is there and she is seeing all these runners that she's seen at other aid stations that have come after me and now they're ahead of me and my wife is not a runner. She's never been crew before this particular race. She has no clue what to do. She doesn't know what squirrels in that butter is.

Speaker 1: 37:16

She does now, but she it doesn't go on a sandwich either, you know.

Speaker 3: 37:22

No, no, it's not that kind of butter. No, definitely not a peanut butter kind of thing. But before the race we had a topic or we had a conversation, and one of the topics was how do I know what to say and how will I know when to say those kinds of things? I said Joe, honey, you know me better than anyone else in this world. That's not my mom and dad. You'll know what I need to hear based on how I look. If it's medical, we have to have a hard conversation. But if it looks just like the soul's kind of left my body and do what you have to do and say what you have to say to bring me back, and I trust that you will know what I need to hear. And so we come into this aid station and by this point she's got it down. She is a crew expert at this point. So she comes me or she sees me walking into the aid station. She comes over, she grabs my bag, gives it to an aid station volunteer, says I need your help in this vest. He wants this in this flask. He wants this. Make sure there's water in the back. If you've got fruit snacks, those work well for him. If you've got a pop tart, throw that in there too. She's like barking orders at the aid station people, and it's looking back and like dang man Wow, that's ballsy, but I appreciate you doing that. And when you're fighting cutoffs, the heck, you know they don't really have much else to do. And so she gives them my vest and looks at me and she goes is this medical? And I told you before the show that I'll try to cut some of these out, but this is one where I have to put it in just to stress it right. She looks at me and she goes is this medical? I said no, I just I don't know if I can keep going. She goes okay, sit the fuck down.

Speaker 1: 39:02

No.

Speaker 3: 39:02

Yes, ma'am, yep, loud and clear. So she sits me in this chair and she just goes to work. She knows that I need a sock change because she feels how wet my socks are because there was a pretty big creek crossing at this point. It takes my shoes off, rips my sock off, dips her hand in this grill's nut butter tub and just starts rubbing. And she looks up at me and she says there's a three year old girl at home who expects her daddy to finish. I don't know what you have to do, but you have to get this done. It's not about you. Larkin needs to know that her dad did this. And she throws my socks on some new socks, she ties my shoe, pulls me out of the chair. I go grab my vest from the eight station worker, I put it on and she goes. I'll see you at the next eight station and you better be there. Yes, ma'am, fantastic. Yes, ma'am, I'd be going as well. I think that just sparked something. And then I passed this guy we're actually Facebook friends now because you know how tight ultra runners get, especially during a race and I pass him and he goes someone got a wild hair. I said yeah, my daughter expects a buckle, he goes hell, yeah, man, you go get that for her and I fly by and she meets me at the next eight station and at that point it's mile 92, I think. And she looks at me and she goes here you are, I knew you'd get it done. And she goes from here on out it's celebration miles, kid.

Speaker 1: 40:28

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 40:29

Just go have fun. And so we cross this bridge and I just start laughing. I start looking at things and just enjoying the last eight miles on the trail, because at that point at this particular race, if you get to that point, they're very soft with that cutoff. And so if you're there and you can keep going, so long as you can keep moving at a respectable time or a decent time, I guess, so you're not taking 30 minutes per mile, but if you can keep moving at a decent clip, 19 minutes or so, they'll let you finish. So we get to that point, it's celebration miles and let's just enjoy the rest of the eight miles out here, crack some jokes with some of the other people that are struggling with you, talk to the Pacers, just make some friends, right, yeah, but yeah, so all of that to say you've got to have something that when the dark comes because you know it does, every single one of us knows that at some point it's gonna get dark, very dark. You have to have that one thing, whether it's pictures in an aid station breaking it down into achievable victories run this next 100 steps. Run this next 100 steps. A pacer who is very close to you that can say the right thing, or a crew who happens to be your wife I'm very fortunate for that who knows exactly what to say Now. All that to say. At the DNF attempt for this race, she looked at me and tried the same thing and she goes Garrett, I don't know what you have to do. I said shut up, it ain't this? Like this is different. Larkin ain't gonna help the fact that I'm getting sick right now. Like that's different. And she goes oh okay, well then I don't know what to say now. So, as long as you have someone that can pull you out when it gets dark, or as long as you have that one thing to cling to, like when I was going through my depression in high school, there was always that one person right, there was always my best friend. He was always there. Whether that's the one thing or one person that you can just cling to, that person that you're rock. That's what works for me. Achievable victories, my wife saying what I need to hear, or something just little, because a lot of times we tend to get overwhelmed and you have so many senses that are firing off and there's pain in this foot and this kneecap hurts. I don't know if this is hungry and can I trust this fart? I don't know if this is a fart or if it's anything more. Those little kinds of things. Just keep it simple At the end of the day. Just keep moving a little bit. Find something to smile about, because you signed up for it Like you knew the hurt was coming. Yeah, and sometimes I relish that hurt. Like man, there we go. This is what I needed right now, like in your long training runs when it, as you mentioned it, not every training runs fun, especially if you've got 20 miles and it's 38 degrees and raining. That sucks. But you gotta do it and you signed up for it. You know what it takes. But if you can practice that mentality there and that's the other thing that I didn't even talk about you kind of gotta put yourself in situations to practice when it sucks, which is very hard to do. You've gotta get vulnerable with yourself to know it's dark and I don't wanna go do this 10 mile run before everyone else is. Even their alarms at clocks are going off. But you gotta get yourself uncomfortable because that's the only way that you can learn that you can overcome the discomfort.

Speaker 1: 44:01

And that's a big thing. I mean, a lot of times the training is actually harder, mentally to some degree, than the race. I mean, in the race you've got all of the adrenaline pumping. There's people around trying to help you, there's other runners typically around you, there is aid stations along the way, there's beautiful scenery. Typically when you're out doing this, there's lots of distraction and other people doing what you're doing. So you kind of can this shared trauma that you go through. You're doing it with other people, but oftentimes especially me as a good example. I mean, I'm out here training more or less by myself. So those early morning runs that you're talking about, it's just me and it's dark and it might be raining, or it's 100 degrees and 100 degree humidity and you're just like I just don't wanna do this. But that is the best training. It's the mental training that if you can get through there and get to the end. I'm not gonna say racing is easier. It's a difficult thing to do, but at least you've been through it and you've some way of coping with it and you've some recognition that, yeah, I went through all this training to be able to get here and so. But yeah, and I think you've mentioned. You mentioned your family there a couple of times and definitely that's a big point for you with. I assume you have a busy life, maybe multiple jobs, family responsibilities. I think one of the cool things about ultra running is that a lot of the things you learn from doing these big races, the resilience you can develop, you can directly translate to daily life and vice versa, if you're doing it in life, you can translate back to the ultra scene too. So it's always this dynamic where you can grow. So how have you managed to do that? I know for me, like work, challenges at work, I equate that to challenges on the trail and small victories. As you were talking about those milestones, you set the small milestones, celebrate the victories. You can do that at work just as well as you can do it on the trail, and it's practice either way and you can implement it either way. Are there any resilience techniques that you've learned, either outside of trail running, that you were then able to apply, or vice versa, through either your DNF at no business or the win at no business that you've been able to take to your family life or professional life More or less the trail goes to the office with me or the trail comes home with me.

Speaker 3: 46:34

There are things that I learn at the office, but so I do mortgages on a daily basis. I'm a loan officer assistant to a bunch of different people, and each of them wants me to do their files in a very different way. Oh yeah, which is kind of related to okay, this grilled cheese isn't working this time, let's go for something a little more savory. The next aid station? Yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:55

I'm just not feeling that right now.

Speaker 3: 46:57

Being able to think on your feet. Yeah Right, yeah, yeah, all puns intended. Being able to think on your feet and being able to adjust as things come in, because I may be working on this one particular file and, all of a sudden, a file that's on fire gets. This now needs all of my attention. Great, I thought this was where I needed to focus my attention. This feels like this really hurts, or the vice versa. Anything that could go wrong in an ultra that ultimately does go wrong, whether it's nutrition or muscle. Or is this my brain just trying to save my body and say, hey, let's fake this injury, let's make this feel like it hurts Even, rather than. Is this something I need to focus on or is this something that I just need to push through? Yeah, that kind of thing. A lot of times it's the other way around, like the trail comes home with me and it's very much a. How do I attack work when work gets hard 3 am, when I wanna sit in a chair and quit is harder. So what can I learn from that experience? What caused me to get myself up out of the chair and how can I? Or when my daughter is having a bad day, like, I love my daughter but she's very emotional and that's very hard for me to parent because I'm not. I'm an emotional guy. Heck, you saw me almost get. You heard me choke up talking about her. I'm an emotional guy, but I don't Not to the extent that she is, and and part of that's just cuz I'm 35 and she's five. You know she I've learned Resilient things from my own life that she just hasn't learned yet and that's okay, but part of that is Okay. What pause? What caused what got me out of this dark spot and how can I help my daughter get out of that dark spot that she's in? What can I say to her or how can I show her that? You know, I understand that when your best friend at school didn't want to play, that it hurt your feelings. Let's talk about that. Let's see how we can work through that. Very much in like okay, when I'm talking with my wife or my pacer, let's talk about this injury. Well, how can we work through this? You know very much a communication there, because because, as you know, when your body's tired, your mind is tired. It's like they're talking to a five-year-old, because you're not comprehending anything. Oh, short and simple. Short and simple. Yeah, exactly like what you need to do with a five-year-old sometimes. Keep it short, keep it simple. So a lot of times it's more or less the trail comes home with me. What did I learn out there? How did I overcome that and how can I bring that here? Because when you're talking interest rates with someone, that doesn't necessarily correlate to the trail, because you're trying to beat someone else's Interest rate, that they've been offered and you know, then you're comparing closing costs and all this stuff that doesn't necessarily, to me, correlate to trail running. It's more or less the, the files that come at me on a daily basis and how to prioritize. That goes over. But see, like I said, it's more or less the trail helps me everywhere else. Yeah, the trail has helped me personally. The trail has helped me professionally. The trails helped me mentally. It's helped my wife, or it's helped my marriage. I'm there are times where she'll look at me like you haven't run in a while. No, I haven't get out of here and go run. I don't want to talk to you right now. You're not making sense. Go run, get your clarity and come back and then we'll talk. Yeah, absolutely. So. The trail has done more than I have done for it. We'll put it that way.

Speaker 1: 50:28

Yeah, I think there's. I think you're right and there's definitely Lessons to be learned and pulled from ultra running to put into life. But I mean I have a stressful job too and I think sometimes, especially at work in the, in the role I have, you know, the ability to practice patience and persistence in a role or with, with employees, learning to do those things can really nicely Translate into a trail run or or an ultra run, where those things start to become a little more natural, sure, especially if we're not running with a crew, so if you're running by yourself, you you've only got you to figure stuff out. But I mean you did talk about your family a lot and we talked about crewing as well. You're developing a strong network. That's super useful in in your professional life, Just as much as it is having an awesome oh, absolutely you know. You know working on your behalf behind the scenes on an ultra race yeah, you probably got a crew working with you in a different way, but you know at work and and then learning to adapt and be flexible and and the level of trust is very much. Yeah, absolutely. You know that positive mindset is a big one too. Those people that come into work and they're just like negative, nancy, and you don't want to like I can't deal with you this Monday morning here At work, like like how do we flip your mindset to Something more positive? What, what did do you like that we have going on this week here at work Just acknowledging the negative?

Speaker 2: 51:57

and then moving. What achieveable victory.

Speaker 1: 51:59

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I just feel like we do focus a lot on ultra running and and the self, how to get to the end of these races and what to learn and personal growth and Achievement. But I do think it's very relatable outside of the sports and in professional life too, and I think there's a, there's a good way to Practice in your professional world and take some of the things you're doing there and apply them into ultra running and, as in More often than not, solo runner. I'd certainly find that mm-hmm, I find that super useful for sure.

Speaker 3: 52:32

I also, you know, like like we talked about. You know, I have, I have three jobs, so I'm always tired, like the only weeknight I don't work is Wednesday because I have to pick my daughter up from gymnastics, and the only weekend day I don't work is Sunday because the house needs attention at the same time, and so when you're tired, then you got to get up for your early morning run. Well, guess what? You're gonna be tired in an ultra. So it's all just training at that point, it's yeah, so just figuring out how to keep the tired as a training tool.

Speaker 1: 53:00

So yeah, how, and learn to operate in the tired space right. So, like I know I, these things happen. I know for me I get headaches when I get really tired. So I got to learn how to operate with a headache. I've got to learn how to shut that off. If I do start to get one, what are the things I can do? Again, it's it's it's learning the lessons that are helpful in ultras. Yeah, just by doing whatever is around, whatever's going on in in your life. Pick up on that and apply it to your ultras, and vice versa too, for sure, but, yeah, absolutely sure. So if you were gonna look back on your journey so far with your two 100s and no business 100, that's not an easy one. I have a friend doing that this year. Actually, if you go listeners go back to, I think, episode three, stuart Secker. So he's flying over from the UK and he's gonna be doing no business 100 this year out in Tennessee. So good luck to you, stuart, but yeah. So, garrett, looking back on your really your two hundreds, how do you think you've grown or changed as a runner and also maybe as a person through those two experiences?

Speaker 3: 54:08

so when it comes to training, I've done a whole lot more, and this is relatively recent too. What's the point of zone five training? There's really none. I mean, it has its purpose in your training block, but there's no reason to do a bunch of Eight minute miles, which is what I kind of started doing because it's like cool, this feels comfortable. But road running eight minute mile does not Translate very well to a trail race. You know, when it's nice and flat, yeah, that's pretty easy. But when you throw in a thousand feet of elevation in the next five miles, that's very, very different and it takes a whole other type of cardio. And you have to know how to walk too. Like that's something I never really thought about, because when you walk you use different muscles than when you run. Even though the motion is very similar, they're still very, very different. Yeah. So you have to practice walking, you have to practice power hiking. I've done a whole lot more slow stuff Recently. A lot of zone to work, and I'm also coming on that age you mentioned. You know that you're 49. I'm looking how can I Increase my lifespan through all of this too, and all the science behind zone two. Like I've started researching all that and how that Promotes longevity and all that, but also that correlates to being able to run faster, being able to run further when you get that aerobic base. That I kind of Neglected for the long part of my life, so I've been doing a whole lot more of slower stuff, which is humbling. Yeah, you get passed by someone walking their dog yeah because you know you're wearing the wrong kind of sensor, because I used to use an optical sensor and that's a whole other conversation. We won't go down optical sensor versus chest strap, whatever when you're trying to stay in that zone to when you're at a 17, 18 minute mile and the lady walking her Chihuahua across the side of the street looks at you like Okay. Yeah, I'm fine lady, it's.

Speaker 1: 56:14

Part of a plan, don't worry.

Speaker 3: 56:16

Yeah, and it's taught me a whole lot of Patience with myself in being able to accept that my prime athlete days are behind me. How can I come into this gracefully, with respect for myself? Because I listened to an interview and it was with Thierry Henry, my favorite soccer player ever, even though we played very different positions. When he mentioned that when he retired Amazing player Dude, he was so good, but when he retired it was like he died, because it's a very different life, retirement and when you're an aging athlete and all these things and everything changes. When a college athlete no longer has athletics, it's kind of the same, like okay, great, I did this for 24 years. What now? So trying to I don't want to say age gracefully, but still keep my competitive edge, but also know that my competitive days are behind me. How can we adapt and still enjoy all this and still lack of a better way to describe it how do I still have respect for myself?

Speaker 2: 57:25

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 57:26

Compared to where I was versus where I am, and how can I keep going and still fall in love with myself all over again? I guess, as this new type of athlete that maybe isn't as thought as I hoped I would be or thought I could be, who knows, maybe I'm just, maybe I'm completely wrong in my training.

Speaker 1: 57:47

Well, no, I think you're right. I think this change that everybody goes through as you sort of age and slow down it really it becomes more about the experience of the event, making sure that you get as much enjoyment of the experience of the event. And then the challenge. You mentioned the challenge. Quite a bit, right. So the challenge is always can I get to the finish? Can I get to the finish faster than maybe I did last time? Can I set my own personal record? It becomes less and less about the competition with other people and it just becomes more and more about competition with myself. And okay, maybe I ran this race last year. I'm going to try to run it slightly faster than I finished last year, regardless of what anybody else is doing. I ran a race. I ran the Bandera 100K down here a couple of weeks ago and for me it was. I mean, there were people bombing passing and I was relatively quick. I was definitely mid-pack, for sure, and I'm chasing cutoffs at the moment. But it's really humbling to have all these people just bombing past you flying around this course and it's a pretty technical. There's a good few thousand feet of climbing on that and it's kicking rocks and all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 3: 58:59

But yeah, I think the challenge changes that one is on my radar of wants to do.

Speaker 1: 59:03

It's a great race, it's great, but there in again, the challenge changes to be more about you and more about comparing yourself to sort of last year you were six months ago and it becomes way less about me racing anybody else on that course. And that's really where I was trying to get to like, as I was doing that race, there almost couldn't have been anybody else on that course, it wouldn't have mattered to me, it was just me trying to get around the course. I had a time in mind, kind of get around in that time. Am I on that time? What do I need to do? And then everybody else. You know, whatever you want to do, if you want to scream by me, you go ahead. Here's what I'm trying to do today you run your race, kid.

Speaker 3: 59:42

Yeah, you, just you run your race.

Speaker 1: 59:44

I'm just going to trot around and do my thing and I will say I spent almost 18 hours completing 100K and I did manage to find a volunteer with a beer at the second to last aid station. I got a guy showed up with an IPA so I was like yes, I've done it. There's me and this one guy chugging a beer at the aid station looking at it and was like what are you doing? I'm just here having fun. I know I can finish. I've got plenty of time to finish.

Speaker 3: 1:00:12

I'm not ahead of racing anyone but.

Speaker 1: 1:00:14

I'm good with it. If you want to go, you go, it's all good. So that's where I am as a runner, just aging as a runner. It's kind of cool in that the racing aspect of other, racing other people has really left me a long time ago and I used to do a lot of marathon running too and running for time on marathons and that's stuff and I can't believe that's just really painful. Running fast is painful for me as much as anything. It's difficult to do.

Speaker 3: 1:00:42

It hurts a whole lot more than 100. I don't race 5Ks, those hurt a lot.

Speaker 1: 1:00:47

Fast and concrete oh man, that doesn't work with my body anymore. People ask me why don't you? Marathon must be easy right and I would say no, I'd much rather run a 50K on a trail or even 50 mile on a trail any day than a marathon on a road. A marathon on a road is a hard, hard race. You're trying to run fast, it's on concrete and it's still 26 miles. I mean, that's not anything to sniff at. So marathon, really difficult race, sure, but yeah, I love trail running.

Speaker 2: 1:01:15

I love trail running.

Speaker 1: 1:01:16

It's tough, and the further you go, the less speed is any kind of needed at all in those races. It's a great level of the distance because it almost takes you natural talent out of it For sure, and now it's all about you and what's up here. Can you keep going where and to your point, your base? If you were to run a 200 mile or a 13 or 14 minute pace average, if you just chug along as slow as you like, you're going to do really really well in that race.

Speaker 3: 1:01:51

So pace has gone out the window. You mentioned slowing down and that's fine. I'm humbling myself with slowing down and I'm getting used to it and I'm starting to see actually the mitochondrial benefits of it. So I did a threshold test the other day and my threshold increased. So brilliant. Maybe there's a silver lining in running slow, the whole adage run slow to get fast.

Speaker 1: 1:02:14

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:02:15

But yeah, it's teaching me a whole lot of patience, which is correlating very well to raising a five year old and navigating this whole stage of life that we're in, and my wife and I are still trying to make sure that we have a relationship, and I'm a better runner when things are okay at home and I'm much, much, much better at home when I get my running in Brilliant.

Speaker 1: 1:02:41

Right. Well, so, Garrett, each episode we do encourage guests on the show here to pick a song for the free Spotify Choose to Enjoy playlist. Usually it's something to lift you up or motivate you or just kind of get you moving while you're out on the trail. Did you have a song to add to the playlist there and if so, what is it that resonates with you about this particular song?

Speaker 3: 1:03:08

So I went with Into the Mystic, not the Van Morrison. I forget who's singing Gosh. I even sent it to you. Now I can't remember. It's on my saved playlist. I am a huge reggae music fan. Have you ever been in a bad mood and listened to a Bob Marley song? You're not in a bad mood by the end of the song, it's just to me and I joke with my wife all the time and like, hey, is this the year we moved to Jamaica? We go all the time. We go actually every other year. I would live there if I could. 100% would live in Jamaica if I could. So at the end of every year, when it's Spotify wrapped, it's always like okay, who's second to Garrett's reggae? Because it's always the top for me and reggae just has this way for me of just making you smile. Like you can't listen to reggae. In the corners of your mouth or down, you hear that little ska beat and the corners of your mouth go up, and so it's one of those that sure it may not be inspirational in its lyrics or in its beat or anything, but to me, when times get hard, I just throw in a little reggae and just let the three little birds tell me that everything's going to be all right. So I went into the Mystic, which is a Van Morrison song and they did a reggae kind of beachy cover to it and it's just, it's smooth, it's easy to listen to. Like I said, the corners of your mouth kind of lift up, which makes everything just feel a little bit better if you can just manage that little smile.

Speaker 1: 1:04:36

So yeah, Into the Mystic is kind of one that lately has just been getting a whole lot more play than any of the other ones and it's just my go-to right now, my go-to kind of just heart happy song, if you will and I'm going to do an episode here shortly on the podcast all about music and ultras and the emotion and all of the attachments that people are getting to music, how it makes you feel, how it impacts training, how you can use it on race day. But reggae is one of my favorites, which seems really weird for a dude from England, Like what the heck do we know about reggae? Nothing. But I absolutely love the beats of reggae and for me, much like you, I just find it so cool and it's so sort of chill and relaxing. You can imagine yourself on the beach, just kind of. You know, it's like calm and I put it on when I run because it is for me it's the easy day running stuff, so I'll throw on some reggae when I'm doing that. So it translates to it helps me run calm, run easy, keep a smooth pace, stay relaxed, slow down, Like that's how I use that type of music. But into the mystic, whether it's the Van Morrison or I think it was simplified. Was it simplified?

Speaker 3: 1:05:52

Van Morrison did a good job. I'm not knocking Van Morrison's song at all. It's really, really good. It's all good. I just like this little reggae beachy style. It's more of a West Coast reggae than your typical Jamaican reggae. So it's got a little more of a little more beat than just your typical little reggae.

Speaker 1: 1:06:10

Yeah, just something to move to you know, yeah, a little more instruments involved.

Speaker 3: 1:06:13

But yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:06:14

Yeah, but so West Coast reggae it's yeah, it's tough to feel down with reggae on right, so that mood enhancer, you throw that on and just kind of go for it. Yeah, brilliant. Well, today's conversation has taken us through kind of highs and some lows, some emotional stuff around ultra running shed and light on the crucial roles of failure and motivation and resilience. We've heard Garrett's experiences, from overcoming setbacks in the, in the hundred mile races there, to balancing life's demands, offering key lessons that failure, just it, isn't an obstacle, it's an opportunity to learn, it's an opportunity to adapt, and that's applicable both in running and life. So Garrett's stories emphasize the importance of maintaining a positive mindset and the strength of perseverance, the strategies he's outlined for coping with negative thoughts and setbacks as well as his dedication despite a busy life definitely illustrate the universal values of mental toughness and resilience. So, listener out there, whether you're facing challenges in your own running or in life, I want you to remember the power of resilience. Embrace your setbacks, learn from them and vow to yourself, or, if you have a tough wife like Garrett, get them devout to you. Keep moving forward with determination and with positivity. Garrett, thank you so much for your inspiring insights today and for folks out there listening along. Keep pushing through your challenges with the same spirit that you bring to the trail running community. Thanks for spending some time with us today. Don't forget to subscribe to the show, get notified every time a new episode comes out and, of course, follow, share and review. Doing any of those things really does help with the algorithms. That, in turn, helps get the word out and helps others find the show, so that we can share the message, share the information. You can find this on Instagram and Facebook and over at choose2endurecom, and now also on YouTube for the video version too, so be sure to head over to any of those, check us out, say hello, drop us a message, topic feedback If you have a moment. We definitely love getting those interactions and I'll do my best to respond as and when I can. But until then, run long, run strong, don't let the setbacks get to you and keep choosing to enjoy.

Speaker 2: 1:08:42

Thanks for running with us at the Choose2Endure podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. We had a blast. If you did, make sure to like, rate and review, and we'll be back soon. Keep racking up the miles and the stories and we'll catch you at the next trailhead. Until then, remember to run long, run strong.