Spartan Races with Robert B. Foster: Similarities to Ultra Running and Why They Might Be a Great Complement to your Ultra Training

Speaker 1: 0:07

This is the Choose to Endure Ultra Running Podcast with your host. He's English, not Australian Richard Gleave.

Speaker 2: 0:19

Alright, so welcome back and thanks for joining us again. This is the Choose to Endure podcast. We are dedicated to the back of the pack Ultra Runners who are redefining possible one epic journey at a time. Today, I am super pleased to be joined by Rob Foster. So Rob is an award winning international speaker. He is a mental health advocate and also host of his own hit podcast, shut Up and Grind, where he inspires guests to share their stories of trauma, survival and, defying the odds, he helps people heal themselves while empowering others that are having similar struggles, which I think is an incredible thing to do. Having overcome his fair share of pain, including divorce, a doctor saying he'd never run again, watching his father pass away, losing a job after 21 years and being a single parent of five kids oof challenging, to name a few Rob created his flagship program, speak About Yourself Out Loud, where he helps people take their stories from a place of pain to a place of power. But in addition to all that, rob also finds time somehow to compete in Spartan ultra races, and that's really what we're here to discuss today. Rob's got a great story. We got some hopefully great conversation to talk through. So, rob, welcome to the show. Wonderful to have you on. Maybe we should start at the beginning, since usually that's the most logical place to start For folks listening who may not be familiar. What are Spartan altars? What makes them different to kind of the regular ultra running that we might be familiar with? And really, how did you get into participating in these events?

Speaker 3: 2:15

Alright. Well, first, thank you for the opportunity to be on, and in 2011, I donated a kidney to my sister, and so this was in May, and part of the rehab was I wanted to get back to full health as quickly as possible. There's two years prior, I had a bad knee injury and it took a solid two years to really get back to doing stuff again. So, coming off of the kidney donation because they took it right through my abdomen and right around that time I saw an advertisement for a race called Boda Dash. It's a local race here in Rhode Island, and so my goal was to get myself healthy again enough to do that race, and so that's relevant, because that's what jump started my love of OCR and, to be fair, I didn't like that first one. I didn't like it at all.

Speaker 2: 3:11

We rarely do the same across the board, right, the first one is always awful for sure.

Speaker 3: 3:16

Yes, yes, because like I'm not a runner, but I was intrigued by the obstacles. So at the end of the race and a couple of days later, once my legs got back to normal from being sore from going up and down the ski slopes, I was like you know what I can put together a training program. I was like I can do a better job, but like let's do another one. So we found another one, I went with some of my gym clients and we did another one, then we did another one and then I was hooked. So around that time I started seeing advertisements for Spartan races and as I looked into it again, to be honest, it looked cheesy. I looked cheesy had people with the Spartan helmets on and these gladiator things. It looked very gimmicky. So I held off doing it for the first year. And finally, now I had done a Tough Mudder, I had done some of the longer races and I was really, really hooked. So it's like all right, let me try the Spartan race, see what it's all about. And oh boy, did I find out what it was all about. A Spartan race was on another level than some of these other ones, Like they would have. Like with these other races they would have different ways for you to get through each obstacle. So it catered to everyone, Whereas Spartan back then. They've softened their stance now, but back then they literally tried to break you. It was like that was their goal. It set it on the. When you pick up your packet it says it right on there Spartan will try to break you. I was like, okay.

Speaker 2: 4:49

Oh man, I'd be like not today, my friend, I'm coming at you kind of thing, you know like that's a challenge right there.

Speaker 3: 4:57

Yeah, let me tell you. It humbles you, though, because I had done the warrior dash, I want to say, a couple of weeks prior, and I flew right through that course, so I did go into Spartan a little bit on the cocky side, and so I was like you know, I'm gonna crush this course, and I took off.

Speaker 2: 5:14

How did that work out?

Speaker 3: 5:15

Oh, oh, my God, by mile one and a half it felt like my lung was hanging out of my mouth. It's like I started way too hard. The obstacle like every obstacle is just intense and like I was not prepared to expend that much energy, and so I definitely took a huge dose of humble pie. But that race started to change how I trained my clients, Cause I was like I have to go back to the drawing board and I got to do better. And so now the next year, Spartan added different distances where they added an ultra beast is what it was called then. It's just called the ultra now, but then they had a super in a beast, so there's a 5K, a 10K, a 21K and a 50K. So I did the super, the 10K, and it was a little longer back then. They're pretty standard now. And that one it sucked, but it was manageable. And then Spartan had some genius about putting pie pieces. When you finish each race and you want to connect the pie pieces.

Speaker 2: 6:18

Oh, so, like in a metal, you've got to kind of build your pie by finishing all yeah.

Speaker 3: 6:24

It's called the trifecta. So I had, I had done the sprint, the 5K, I had done the super. So I was like, damn, I got to do the third one. So I was like, all right, let me do the beast. So now the beast is a 21K, and now that year it was 18 miles because it was the Spartan world championship and it was in Killington, vermont. And when I tell you, that was like the hardest thing I had ever done until I, until I did the ultra, like it was awful. And at that moment I said I have no desire whatsoever to do an ultra beast, none Like if the beast is that hard, because an ultra is essentially two laps of the beast with an additional hellacious four miles. So I was like that is absolutely nowhere in my radar. All right, do I want to do this? So, so anyway. So now we fast forward a few years and I have a lot of races under my belt. I built a pretty big obstacle racing team and we had a couple of people talking about doing the ultra and I was like, all right. So I went out and I bought a treadmill that inclines to 40 degrees because my first stab at it it didn't go well, all right so, but I thought I trained well, like I trained hard, for this race, and we got there. I finished the first lap and I finished the four miles, but my knees were just shocked because, like I've had three knee surgeries, so my knees were just shot after that first lap and I was like you know what I got to hang it up and so I took my only DNF, did not finish. Of all the races I've done, I've done 178.

Speaker 2: 8:04

Oh my gosh, that's a lot of racing.

Speaker 3: 8:07

Yeah Well, it's like I train people, so, as people do the rate, I mean granted, I love doing the races, don't get me wrong Like I absolutely love doing them, but as people train for the races and they want to do them, like I can't coach them and they're not be there, yeah Right, and not be there with them.

Speaker 2: 8:24

So you're training people specifically for the Spartan races, or are you, are you, personal training outside of that? Do the two overlap?

Speaker 3: 8:32

Well, the way I explain it to people, what we do in class, that's like college coursework. The Spartan races, that's the exam, all right. So that lets us know how fit we actually are and then, based on people's performances, I can tweak the workouts to get them strong wherever the weaknesses may lie, right, okay. So getting back to that first ultra, that I didn't do. So, when you do the Spartan ultra, everyone wears a purple penny, because with the ultra there's time cutoffs. Yeah and so if you're coming through, especially on lap two, if you're coming through, the non Ultras have to move out of your way and let you go Right. So I hung that purple penny up on the wall, because that it was my first L in a race ever, and and I found the next one. I said and originally I was gonna go down to Dallas, but I ended up going down to South Carolina and I trained. So this was in April and the one in North Carolina was in November. I said so I need to hit as many Mountains as I can hit. I'm gonna do as many races as I can get like, and I am going to make it through this ultra. It was like my mission, and so we fast forward a few months. I'm logging all these miles, and then we hit killing pin again, mm-hmm, and so now I get the killing pin. So now I have one one kidney. I don't know if you're familiar with rap, though.

Speaker 2: 9:56

Oh yeah, don't my Alice, yeah sure.

Speaker 3: 9:58

Yeah. So I think in 2015 I got it and didn't realize I had it like my, my, I think was my left leg Just like swelled up big time and I just thought it was cuz, you know, the race sucked in, that's how I'm body responding to it Like I did it. Yeah, like I didn't know rap dough was a thing, and so so this year in 2017 Stupid me, I came off of a knee surgery and I did killing pin without properly training, and I got Got rap dough. And this time I went to the hospital because, like I didn't feel right. So I went to the hospital and that was how I learned about it, right. So so now in 2018, I'm doing all this training, doing all the races, and here we hit killing pin again, because I couldn't let that last one be how the story ended. Yeah everyone's like, yeah, you did kill it, but you ended up in the hospital. I was like you know what? I'm gonna train even harder and I'm gonna do this. And so I trained, I did it, I felt good and then went to the hospital the next day had rap dough again spent 40s in the hospital, oh my gosh. So now the ultra was. So this was in September of 2018, the ultra was in November, and so I remember going to to going to see my doctor and he and he got like teary-eyed. He was like pleading with me to not do this ultra. He's like you just did this killing 10 race, which was 15 miles, and you landed in the hospital. Yeah, he's like, and you're gonna try to go do 30. He's like don't do it. He's like you like you have five kids. He's like think about your family, think about about your clients. He's like, think about about your parents. He's like, think about all of that stuff. And I said, with all due respect, I'm gonna find someone who has one kidney and I'm gonna find out how they train. And I did that. So on Facebook. So on Facebook, did there's a book that's dedicated I'm not not a book to the page that's dedicated to Spartan ultra racing. And so I posted in this group who here has completed an ultra with one kidney? And I actually got six responses get away. And so we we started in boxing each other. I'm like how do you balance your, your electrolytes? You know how do you feel before? Like, do you do you do pediolite or do you do whatever? And I just picked their brains and I applied what they did and I went back to my training. Like every weekend, I was just either on my my treadmill on the 40 degree incline or I was on a mountain somewhere. I'm like this is happening and everyone closest to me was trying to talk me out of this. But you know, I'm a competitor like I've always been a competitor, and taking that loss in April Hurt my soul, hmm. So it's like. I went to my doctor. I said I have to do this. I was like not everybody gets it, but I have to do this. Like it wasn't even about, you know, getting a certain time a place in, like I just need to cross the finish line and get that buckle. I said because now, being a storyteller, that completes the comeback, it's like I can't let this race defeat me. Like killing 10, land me in the hospital and Not finish the story right and yeah. So now the Spartan ultra. It's 30 miles. It's like 66 obstacles, I believe. And and as I said earlier, the Spartan obstacles they test you. You're carrying heavy buckets up and down hills, sandbag carries, you got walls. You got monkey bars that spin. It's like almost everything. Test your physical strength and endurance. Were you about to say something?

Speaker 2: 13:44

No, no, I was just kind of thinking like that's, that's really insane. And are they? Are they? Are those obstacles spaced out along the way, or do they kind of block three or four together and then you run to the next section and you there's three or four more. How does it set up?

Speaker 3: 13:58

So typically in the spectator areas they try to put more in there because people, people pay for spectator tickets. So in those areas, but typically they're, they're spaced out a decent, a decent amount. But there will be little pockets where you hit a couple things in in succession so you can give the spectators things to, things to watch. Yeah but, but, yeah, but when you do this, like I said earlier, it really is. It's like that second lap is all survival Right. So I went with tool with tool. My gym clients and I told them I was like guys, keep in mind, I've had three knee surgeries said so, oh, no, no, I'm sorry at that time I had to. I had the third one in 2019. So, like I've had two knee surgery, I said so, my knees start talking because I'm a lot taller than they are and I have a longer stride than they have. Hmm. So I said I'm gonna have to pull, pull away. I said I gotta make sure, like I'm not failing. Another ultra is not happening. So if I have to leave you to finish, then so be it.

Speaker 2: 14:58

Like, it is what it is. I'm going yeah.

Speaker 3: 15:01

So we get that now getting down there. This is a whole story in itself, because the day before we were supposed to fly down we had a snowstorm, so that backed up all of the planes, right. So we, we get to the airport here in Rhode Island and I think we got there like 4 20 am. If I remember correctly, it's supposed to be a 6 am Flight. Yeah and they're like all the flights have been canceled and we're all looking at each other like what? And they're like, yeah, we can get you down down there tomorrow, like we're racing in the morning. Yeah, I'm like we can't get down there tomorrow, like the race starts. We have to be there for 6 am and so, long story short, we we ended up getting down there, but it took us 20 hours.

Speaker 2: 15:44

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3: 15:45

So we got to Greenville, south Carolina, just before 2 am and we had to be up at 4 am To get ready, get packed and drive to the venue. So now we're about to run this ultra on two hours of sleep. Oh.

Speaker 2: 16:01

Yeah, now you're talking my language right here.

Speaker 3: 16:03

Yeah, and to make it even better, it was 31 degrees at the start. So so we get down. There is ice cold, so you have to dress appropriately. The high for the day was 67.

Speaker 2: 16:19

I believe that's a big swing you had to have.

Speaker 3: 16:22

Multiple stuff in in your bag. So so we get down there like this ice and ice and patches, so you got to watch your footing as you're trying trying to run and go up and down the hills. It was like really a tale of two laps and so what we're going through and All is well on lap one. I think we did lap one in just over five hours, I want to say, and because with the obstacles, in the mud, in the water, like it slows everything down, like you can't compare it to a Traditional marathon, you know, because, like an average, an average person runs a marathon in about five hours. Like an average person, like the average person does a Spartan beast by itself in about seven to eight hours. You know. So just from a time perspective big difference you can get, get the difference. So we did the first lap in five hours and For the second lap, that's where stuff starts getting real, because now you glycogen storage are dropping. You know you're trying to manage the electrolytes because because now the Sun is up, it's warm and you know you're sweating more totally different game. Yeah, yeah, it was totally. The things that were frozen were now muddy. There's a picture. If I had a handy I'd put it up up to to my camera. There's a picture of myself and one of my teammates waist deep in a mud pit that was frozen over on the first lap, so we didn't even know it was there. We're like yeah, like oh man, so now everything that was frozen is now muddy, and so that just added another dimension to getting through it, because now you're lifting up out of the mud, the hip flexors are talking to you. You know, you get a rock in your shoe. You bend down to take the rock out in your hamstring.

Speaker 2: 18:09

Yeah right, it is not my friend. All the obstacles.

Speaker 3: 18:13

Yeah, your forearms are burning, your hands are starting to hurt, and I remember it was at mile 17. I have twin boys and one of one of them he had. He was having an appendectomy, so he was in the hospital. It's like I almost didn't go to the race, but at the same token I was like what am I really gonna do for him if I stay here? He's in the hospital, he's under the doctor's care. I was like I trained for this race. I said let let me just go, but I needed to pick me up. So this was at mile 17. Legs were burning. I had left my teammates at this point and so now it's just head games and I'm like, do I really need that buckle? Yeah, I was like. I was like I could just leave right now and I could keep my head up high, but deep down I definitely couldn't do that. So I called my son and I'm like hey, buddy, how's it going? And he's like hey, dad, how are you? I was like, huh, I'm in hell right now. I was like I just need to hit, hit your voice, like tell me something good. And he's like you got this, you can do it, so you called him from from the course.

Speaker 2: 19:20

While you're doing there, you're just like, hey, I'm just gonna call right, right here from the course.

Speaker 3: 19:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had my phone on me. I was going through come, my legs were getting heavy, but just, but just hearing that little bit of his voice was enough to be like you know what. You're focused on mile 30. I said let's just focus on mile 17 Then. Then I got to 18. All right, let's get to 19. Let's get to 20. I just kept taking a mile by mile, but every mile, like everything just felt worse, like it. I know I'm not selling this as a thing as like a fun, great experience, but we but when you cross the finish line, that is an absolutely amazing feeling. Yeah, no, it's like I almost felt I almost got got emotional, because it's like you literally Go through the depths of hell when you're in this race, like the Spartan ultras. I don't think any of them have a finish rate above 50%, like I know the one in Killington, like people actually run Killington twice, you know, and I think that one's like a 20% finish rate, I don't know how to say so. When you cross that finish line, the sense of accomplishment is absolutely amazing and I actually committed to doing one in 2024 with one of my gym clients, cause I told myself. I was going to be one and done you know Cause it really is a suffer fest. It really is. But I tell people, you know what? Just try at least one, cause you are really going to find out who you are.

Speaker 2: 20:58

Yeah, and I think that's a lot of. I mean, that's where I feel like there's a lot of crossover here, because certainly on the ultra running side it's a very similar story, right, it's all about the perseverance, the physical challenge that's ahead of you and you do go through just hell really the further you go. But yeah, as you get close to the finish and then you cross that finish line, it's an incredible feeling. And I know, when I started doing these super long runs and you've kind of touched on it a little bit there nobody. I mean you can train all day for the physical side of things and you can get really good at the physical. But what nobody told me when I first kicked off doing like really long running was that it is a complete emotional roller coaster out there and like you, just I mean there's no, it comes when it comes right. So one minute you're, you know, toodling along doing fine, and then suddenly you hit this huge low patch and you know, much like you were calling your son, like we're just looking for some help somewhere to get out of this low patch. But yeah, the emotional side of doing these events, whether it's the Spartan or the ultra running, I mean it's a fantastic learning tool for yourself, like self coping, the positivity and the perseverance you need to do and the self belief you have to cultivate within yourself to get to that finish, which is why I think you know you talk about. It's a massive accomplishment when you get to the finish of these things and it is Because you gotta cultivate that self belief to get there. So, yeah, really interesting the similarities between the two.

Speaker 3: 22:40

Absolutely See, and you touched on it, like why I do so many of these things. Like, yes, I have my own personal joy, but being a fitness coach is so many people doubt themselves. Like you just touched on self belief and that's why I push people to do these things, cause they're a lot stronger than they think they are. People be like, oh, I can't do monkey bars. I'm like how do you know? Yeah, how do you know you can't. You know, like I had. We just did the race up at Fenway Park in Boston back in November and I had one of the guys he was like, oh, you know, I'm just gonna walk around all the obstacle. Like, no, you are not. I'm like he's a bigger dude. So he's thinking like all the hanging stuff, never would. He did the monkey bars, he did the rings Wow, he did the walls. Like he did all of that stuff. And I was, and he was trying to downplay. I was like you had a great day. I was like be proud of yourself. Yeah, you had an amazing day. And this other woman, liz, same thing with her Like cause, the monkey bars in Spartan? Like they're really thick? And again she's like I'm worried about the monkey bars, like I was watching YouTube videos and I was like, listen, when we get there, you're going to take it rung by rung and you're going to get across these things. And she got across it. She lit up like a Christmas tree, you know. It was like that's the other joy of it. It's me watching people that I train for these things and then watching them come right into their confidence Like that's such, it's such a rush.

Speaker 2: 24:03

Yeah, and I love that approach and it's very relevant in the ultra running world as well that whole sort of compartmentalized approach whereby I mean, if I showed up at the start line of a 200 mile race and thought, oh, I've got 200 miles to go, I would never, I may not even make the start. You know, it's just too much, it's too overwhelming. But there's a saying you know, just run the mile you're in, just focus on what you're doing right now and how do you get to the end of that particular mile, and then worry about the next one and the next one and just compartmentalize what you're doing in order to get the small gains and, over time, the small gains sort of lead you to this amazing accomplishment at the finish. So, yeah, I love that. Yeah, great life lessons.

Speaker 3: 24:50

Yeah, I say the same exact thing. I say, guys, we're not doing a 13 mile race, so we're doing 13 one mile races. Yeah, it's all we're doing. We're taking it mile to mile. That said, don't worry about the end, don't worry about all that other stuff, let's just get to the next one, let's get to the next one, and then we're going to keep duplicating that till we get to the finish line.

Speaker 2: 25:10

Well, and I think that back to the belief, the self-belief conversation, which for me, that's one of the reasons I chose to do these long runs, because I suffer a little bit in that respect from the confidence and belief aspect for a bunch of reasons in my past. But yeah, I think when you break it down to such small, just focus on this one thing and you get a win. And then you start that it turns that corner. You start to think, oh, I can do that, and then maybe I can do the next one, and suddenly I've done two where I didn't think I could do any of either obstacles or miles or whatever it is you're doing really. But yeah, I think just breaking it down into the small components and then focusing on just that component really drives that self-belief. But it's also a great distraction because it takes away all the other stuff that's going on. All you've got to do is focus on this one thing. Whether it's get across these first couple of runs of the monkey bar or whether it's complete the first mile of your 200 mile race that you're starting, it doesn't matter, it's just hey, what do I have to do? Put the blinkers on and go for it, and then get there and then reassess and go from there and I love it. I think that whole aspect of drive, the self-belief and bring some confidence to yourself, I think that's a lot of for me, at least, that's a lot of why I do these things for sure.

Speaker 3: 26:30

Absolutely, and I want to expand on that, on what you just said, because in my gym, working on the more difficult things like push-ups, a lot of women say that they want to do a proper push-up or doing pull-ups, things of that nature is it's about the starting point. People have to get comfortable with the starting point. So if I bring you over to the pull-up bar with the camera and if all you can pull is there, then that's your starting point.

Speaker 2: 27:03

That's what you do. Do that.

Speaker 3: 27:04

Yeah, that's not a failure. We're going to build upon that, and then you're going to get higher, and then you're going to get higher. And it's the same thing. When I tell people with the obstacle races it's not like this is the only race that's out there. So, to your point, if you're going across the monkey bars and if you make it to rungs three, you didn't fail. You made it to rungs three. Next race we'll try to get you to four. Next race we'll get you to five, or that. Next race you might make it all the way across, who knows. But we got to stop putting the limitations on ourselves, like when I failed that first ultra. I could have just been like no ultra's aren't?

Speaker 2: 27:40

for me Done.

Speaker 3: 27:41

No, it's like I went to a different place and I trained harder. I defied my doctor, I defied my parents.

Speaker 2: 27:49

I defied my coworkers.

Speaker 3: 27:51

And people closest to me were like Rob, don't do this. You know they're like you're risking your health, you're risking your life and I'm like and it's that important to me Finishing that, like when I look at that buckle, like every one of my medals, everyone tells a story, like I can pull it up and go right back to that race and talk about what I went through. So, like a lot of people that don't do it, they don't get it, like they just don't. I don't understand why you put yourself through that, because some of them I come back with nothing good to say yeah, it's like that was one absolute suffer fest. It was freezing cold, my feet were numb, my hands ripped open and people are like why do you?

Speaker 2: 28:36

do it.

Speaker 3: 28:37

Yeah, what are you doing? It's such a rush Like. I like the challenge of it and the harder the elements, the better the better. I don't want a flat, simple course. Give me the hills, give me the mountains. I want all of the smoke when it comes to that. If I'm going to travel for it and pay for it and do all this other stuff for it and have to buy gear for it and camel packs and all this stuff, I want the best that they have to offer. And I found even though it's time for Spartan to give us some new obstacles but they're the best in the business outside of the OCR World Championship but they moved out to California. It was in New England, in Vermont. I got to do it two years ago before they moved. That one had some killer obstacles, but I'm not going to go all the way to California, it was just a race.

Speaker 2: 29:28

That's a long way to race from Rhode Island. For sure, I'm sure there's other ones. But I love the aspect of hey as I relate it to the ultra running side of things. I had a great friend who this summer was trying the triple crown of 200. So you run 300, 200 milers across the summer with a few weeks in between each. Now she ultimately didn't finish any of them, but what we were talking about was that is not a failure. Every one of those races she learned something about herself. She learned something about how to race in mountains and how to race at massive elevation, well over 10,000 feet and what that means for her, and things that she sort of learned from that she could incorporate for the next one. And then the second one she got a little better. And the third one she got really close to the finish. But yeah, just that whole sort of shift of perspective to say, ok, I DNF'd, I didn't finish, I didn't get the medal, but I learned so much about myself. And the person that started at the start line of that very first one was totally different to the person that didn't quite make it to the finish line of the last one Two totally different people. And she has grown and progressed as a person from start point to finish point. So I don't see them as failures. I really do see DNFs a lot of time as just an opportunity to learn. You always learn something and I would argue, to some degree, if you're successful, you learn that for those specific conditions for that day, you did the right thing. But those things that you did then may not work if you did the race again tomorrow or next week or you go to the next race and you try to apply those same things, that may not work. So it's this kind of Rubik's Cube to show my age of a challenge to figure out every time you show up to a race, based on the conditions and the weather conditions and your condition and what the race is putting in front of you on that given day, and the temperature, the mud and all the other stuff that makes every one of these events different from the previous one. And you've got to figure that out. And I love that challenge, I love putting myself there and saying, right, you've got to think on your feet now, because you tried to do this last time and it worked, but this time it's not working, so now I've got to think again. How am I going to figure this out? What am I going to do? How do I work myself around this problem? How do I figure it out? So the whole DNF thing I love DNS because it tells you so much about yourself and it tells you what you didn't get right and maybe in some cases it can give you a push to go get it right. As you were mentioning last time. I've got to finish this race. I've got to go back and finish this.

Speaker 3: 32:13

Yeah, that took my training to a whole other level. Yeah, not finishing that race. Like I said, it hurt my soul to actually say I quit. And that's pretty much what you do when you DNF. I was like I quit and it's like they cut my band off and I was like I'm not going back out. Yeah, they're like oh, come on, you can push. I'm like you don't understand, my knees are shot. There's no way I can get through that again. Like there's no way. Like on a mountain. So I had to find one that was a little flatter, so it was still hilly, but I mean 30 miles, 30 miles.

Speaker 2: 32:50

So I was like all right.

Speaker 3: 32:51

So the mountain one I'm not going to do that one. Like I can do up to the beast on mountains, but like to go beyond that. Like my knees just can't take that anymore. But back to what you were saying about learning from it. Like I coached track and field and I was just with my athletes earlier today and I said that to them. I'm like you're not going to hit a PR every single meet. You're not going to. I said so, the meets that you don't perform well, we have to learn from them. You don't let them demoralize you. You learn from them. Almost everybody has camera phones now. I'm like have whoever is here with you, record your performance, and we go back and we watch. Oh, you weren't driving your arms enough, you were too extended here, you didn't get enough explosion off the long jump board, and you just take that info and you learn it. Like we hear NFL coaches talk about that all the time. Time to get back in and watch the film. You know basketball players get in and watch the film. Yeah, it was like, yeah, losing sucks, but you can't let it define you and as quickly as you move on from it. Because I told you I got back home I took that penny, it went right on my wall and I put the Dallas Ultra date with a countdown on my wall. Every morning I got up, checked, check and said I ended up switching to South Carolina, but still, but right. The second I got back and I looked at that every single day, so like when I turned on my light it was in my line of sight and I was like I will not feel that again, like it's not happening.

Speaker 2: 34:22

I love that, and you mentioned to some degree too, the just the gear and the training. So what does your training look like for these? Because it seems like there's a lot of strength work you might need that I guess folks in the ultra world probably aren't doing oh well, we should be doing some, but we probably aren't doing the same amount as you guys are doing. And I just it seems like and you can tell me right or wrong but do you do a lot of sort of technique based training to get across things like the monkey bars or where you carry in the, is it the sandbags on your shoulder and you know, is there a technique that works best? Do you have to train specifically for that, or are you just doing strength work? It's like, how does the training work for these events?

Speaker 3: 35:10

So there are a lot of obstacle gyms. So some of the things I have, like we have a six foot wall, we have two climbing ropes, we have monkey bars, you know like, and a lot of things we can simulate, like we have the heavy buckets in our gym, we have sleds, we have sandbags, you know. So a lot of the things we can duplicate. My gym is actually up on a hill too, so we can utilize the driveway up, you know, on an incline, and then there's another incline over on this side. So we get a lot of practice where we are. But on Sundays, starting tomorrow, we're gonna go out and we're gonna hike, cause there are some places that are pretty hilly around here and some people wear weighted vests and we just go out and we just hit the hills. It's like. So with the hill stuff you definitely gotta be intentional, like you can't roll up to a mountain and, unless you like, squat and lunge four days a week, other than that the mountain itself will break you down. Like that's an obstacle in itself, cause sometimes, usually in the longer races they have you going based on summit at least three times throughout a beast and with a lot of up and down in between.

Speaker 2: 36:22

Is that just running up there, or are you carrying stuff as you're going?

Speaker 3: 36:27

There's both, I mean, depending on the mountain. There's not a lot of running going up, so you try to make up for it on the down in the straightaways. But usually going up you wanna find what we call a power stride, so it's like it's a little bit above a walk, but it's not quite a jog.

Speaker 2: 36:45

Yeah, well, I think that's called a power hike in this world, but it's the same thing. It's just sort of walking with intent. You know more than just casual. You know you're putting something into the walk.

Speaker 3: 36:55

Yeah, yeah, like the uphill, that's my strong point, cause, again, because of all the knee surgery, just like I rationed my running so it's like I'll run maybe a half a mile, then I go power stride the next quarter mile, run a little, stride a little, but I catch a lot of people going uphill cause I do a lot of hill work and so that's my strong point. And then going down, same thing. I can make up some ground, some ground going down, but I have a long stride, but it's fun, it's fun. But the other part of this too, like I did a race, I don't remember where I was and I was actually going solo, so I was like you know what, let me see how fast I can do this, cause when I go with my clients I don't really worry about my own personal time, but when I go solo I try to push the envelope a little. And so I'm coming down on the home stretch. There was only three obstacles left. One of them was the rope climb, and so as I get there, I see a woman kind of having the internal battle with herself at this rope climb, and so I zip up, I ring the bell, I come back down, and now I can hear that she's like sobbing, and so I had to shut off competitive mode and I turned on coach mode and so I was like what's going on? And she's like I can't do this. And she's all teary eyed and I was like all right, let me walk you through this. And she's like I've never been able to do this. I was like look at me. I said until today. All right, I said today is the day, and so I showed her how to lock in and she starts going up. She starts going. She got about halfway. She's like I can't. I'm like, yes, you can. I'm like if it already hurts, at least get the reward from hurting.

Speaker 2: 38:40

It's like don't hurt for nothing. I was like keep going, yeah.

Speaker 3: 38:44

So I was like extend your legs Now, reach like slide, extend, reach, slide. She rang the bell, she comes down full blown tears and she's like can I hug you? I was like, of course you can, so I give her a hug. But moments like that, watching people find their strength, you know, that's the other thing. Like as I bring people to these races and they're like I can't get over that big wall, I'm like how do you know? Like when we get there I'll show you how. And so we get there and just watching them do it and just watching the reactions. You know, I don't know if that gives me a dopamine hit or what, but I absolutely love those moments and so sacrificing my own personal time to help her have that moment meant everything to me and I guarantee she'll never forget that moment for her.

Speaker 2: 39:37

Yeah, I have a similar moment from the other side of that story. I was the lady in my very first 50K that I ran, you know, a mile out from the finish. I'd had enough. It was an awful day for me and I was sunburnt and I'd reached a limit and I sat down on the trail and a lady ran by me and was like what are you doing sitting down? Did you finish? And I said no, I've just had enough, I can't do this anymore. And so she turned to me and I thought she was a bit sort of at the time. I was like are you talking to me like this? She said you're not done, you're done when you get the finish. The finish is a mile away. You can walk to the finish. Sitting there, you aren't finished, so get up and walk to the finish. And I was like, oh, you know, like who are you to yell at me, you know? But I was like, well, I don't want her to yell at me anymore. So I got up and I literally walked to the finish. But, to your point, I felt really bad until I came around the bend and she had run ahead of me and she had gathered everybody at the finish line and lined them up along the finishing chute and they all kind of. When I came around the corner and I couldn't see them in advance. I came around the corner and they were all clapping and cheering like, come on, you know, you're going to do it, you're going to do it. And I mean much like the lady I was. I was like man too much. I mean, I cried going through the finish line of that because a mile earlier I was done, I'd had enough, you know, and I it was awful. And then here I am, a mile later and I was just. This is unbelievable the fact that all these strangers would come together to sort of help me get to the finish and cheer me through, and and this one person ran ahead and I was like I didn't know this lady and she didn't know me and but you know much like she, she put on her coach hat and and she told me you know, you're not done here, you can get to the finish. Even if you have to walk, you can get there and and so the emotional reward of finishing that for me was fantastic and really clued me into the OK, I got to go do another one of these. This is amazing. And then, by the way, the group, the trail runner community itself is just an incredible, warm, welcoming community of people who are super positive and everybody wants you to succeed. Whether you come in last or you come in first, it doesn't matter, which is what I love about this community it's just a group of people all pulling for each other and trying as hard as possible to get you across the line or to get you to reach your goal, whatever that, whatever it is you know is your goal. So, yeah, I was. I was that lady, so I definitely can relate from from that side of things for sure.

Speaker 3: 42:06

Yes, one of my most humbling moments actually came in my first tough mutter because, like no, things were still kind of new. So this was in 2012,. Like I started it in 2011. So this was maybe my fifth or sixth race, I want to say, and it was at Gunstock Mountain in New Hampshire. So I remember going to YouTube, yeah, oh yeah, that's a great so remember Yep, so I remember going to YouTube and I found videos of the obstacles. I didn't think about Gunstock Mountain.

Speaker 2: 42:38

There's a second word, so we didn't do any hill work.

Speaker 3: 42:42

Like we were working grip strength, we were working upper body strength, working on pulling and doing muscle ups, you know, to get up over the walls, and we were working everything for the obstacles. Didn't know about camel packs at the time, didn't really know about fueling for endurance, endurance events I don't know about any of that stuff. And it was 96 degrees. This was in August, I believe, 2012. It was 96 degrees. We didn't fuel right, we didn't car blood. We all we had for breakfast that morning was continental breakfast at the hotel. So we was so underprepared and this race was brutal and it was mainly because of the heat in the mountain and then the lack of nutrients. Like I said, you know, we didn't have backpacks or anything, and so we didn't know about salt tabs or mustard packets. We didn't know what, any of that stuff. And it was rough and I remember what. Towards the end now, it was myself and I think there were 10 other people, 10 or 11 other people. And so we're coming down the mountain. We were in the festival area. We can hear the music, we can smell the turkey legs, we're all thinking we're done. And then, as we keep moving forward, I see people turn and left and I was like the finish line is right. Why are we going left, right? And we really couldn't see till we round the corner and it was a full base to summit. Oh, and I had I actually had a mini meltdown. Yeah, I was like I can't effin do it, like this is not happening and like I lost it for us because, again, having the one kidney being dehydrated.

Speaker 2: 44:27

Can be very bad. Yeah, right, can be very, very bad.

Speaker 3: 44:30

So I knew I needed water and One up, you know, one of my clients comes over and he's like Rob, he's like you're the leader, he's like we can't lose you, he's like we need you to get through this, and I was like I was like I really need water, though he's like we gotta finish this, like all right, all right, let's, let's go. And you know, I did it and I finished it and but just yet in that moment, same thing like you just shared. I needed that pick me up because mentally I was checked. I was like I was like I can't do this and I got I need food, I need water, is like this could be damaging to my health here yeah and but yeah, I got, I got through it. And sometimes being on the giving end of those moments obviously on the receiving end that means you're suffering, but on the giving end of those moments, that is more important than your time. Oh yeah they say, oh, I did that race in three hours and 20 minutes. But to say I Stopped and I helped this woman who was in her or man that was in their head, you know, cuz usually it's the shorter, the shorter women that struggle with some of the taller obstacles, and and just to be there and to give them that boost when they would otherwise Walk around it, or just show them a technique where they can get up there themselves, it's like that those moments are more important than saying, oh, I did the race in two and a half hours.

Speaker 2: 46:00

Yeah, yeah, totally. And back to that sort of sense of community and sense of belonging and the, the Everybody helping each other. I had a race in November of last year. I was running along and I came upon a guy and his the batteries in his headlight had run out and it was a middle of the night and he was having a really hard time. I mean it was, it was well below freezing too, and so he was having a really hard time and he couldn't see. And I mean I did, I literally did nothing but say, hey, you know, I've got batteries, let me help you change out. Here's some extra batteries you can start seeing. I mean it wasn't, I didn't do a whole lot. I mean it wasn't a mind-blowing sort of Assist that I'm, that I'm like some Worldly wise information I'm imparting, but I I mean we literally so I took the Because his hands were kind of cold. So I took the headlamp and changed the batteries out, put new batteries in he could see where he was going and give him. You know, we walked a bit together and we asked how he was doing and kind of got him moving again and then, you know, I kind of jogged ahead and he came behind and we, we kind of went to the aid station but I mean, it was such a small thing, but since then he and I I mean he eventually DNF'd further down, but since then he and I become great friends and we, we talk about this moment and it's just, it's the small things Like I would never have if I had just run past the guy and just said, hey, how's it going, you know, rather than say, oh, do you need help? It's that, it's that whole aspect of do you need help? If I have something I can do to or provide to you that will help you get out of whatever situation You're in in the middle of this event. That's that's why I love these, particularly the ultra stuff, because it's so non-competitive at the non-elite level. Everybody is just trying to help each other and I think that's how these great sort of friendships are formed, because really it's shared trauma. Everybody is going through a shared Everybody's doing it their own little variety of that, but it's truly a shared trauma. And if you've ever I mean we have hurricanes here in Houston where we live in a, we live in a community most of the time you don't really bump into or talk to your neighbors. You might say hello here or there, but you have a hurricane come through and everybody loses power. Suddenly, everybody is out in the yard, everybody is going through this shared Trauma and people are talking to each other and you, you know you've meeting people you've never met, because you're all sharing this common sort of heartbreak in a way.

Speaker 3: 48:34

So yeah, and I think too just a great way you're looking at it.

Speaker 2: 48:38

It really is, and and life is all about Convenience these days. Right, where you can, you've got an app. You can order food on your phone and it gets delivered to your door. And so for me it's like where is the challenge in life? Where is the challenge in that? I don't have to do anything? I could sit on my butt all day, I could work from home, I can order my food and it gets delivered to me. What am I doing to challenge myself as a person? And so here I'm gonna set the goal of I want to run a hundred miles, and that seems utterly ridiculous. And back to your point earlier if I was to Walk out to somebody and say, hey, you can run a hundred miles, they go up no way. But I say, if I said, you know, can you walk five miles, they might say, yeah, maybe. I say, okay, well, if you can walk five miles, and then repeat, repeat, repeat and you can get there. But I just think Life is way too convenient these days, and I love things. Like you know, the Spartan Older is that that you're talking? Well, really, all the Spartan races with that putting obstacles and challenges ahead of you, where you have to grow and you have to have belief and you have to face the challenge and figure out a way around it to develop yourself. Yes, I think that's missing in society for me, and I love the fact that all these people that do these things are putting them deliberately, putting themselves in Hamsway or deliberately putting these challenges in front of them to learn. So, whether you ultimately Accomplish it or you, you don't accomplish it, this go, but you come back, like you were saying earlier, and you, you go again Right, and you learn. I love people like that. I really think that's and that's really why the podcast is called choose to enjoy. I mean, people are out there. We pay for this stuff. Right, you pay for the misery, but, yes, but I think I plugged you.

Speaker 3: 50:25

I plugged you to my team earlier too, yeah. I said y'all one o'clock. I said I'm gonna be speaking on on a podcast. I said it's called choose to endure. I said I said what stands out about that title? Yeah, I said choose. Choose we are all gonna endure. Yeah, all right, like life's gonna throw us all curveballs, but you choose how you respond to those curveballs. Yeah and back back to what you were saying about making friends. Yeah, like I've met so many people on the courses, I got this guy, joe, out in Indiana, jessica in Tennessee, another Jessica down in Florida, like just all over, and I just meet them on the course. Yeah, just by chance, of this girl, laura in Illinois, like with with Laura, we were doing the Indiana Spartan beast and we happened to get to an obstacle at mile two and she was in the lane over from me and we came out right around the same time and I hit the bell a split second before her and I said, just so, you know, we were racing, right. She's like, oh really right. So we ended up just playing leapfrog the rest of the time, cuz she was a runner. And remember, I said, my, my specialty is the hills, so, like, on all the straightaways she would take off and I would catch her on every incline. Yeah, we leapfrog each other the entire way and we became friends. Like, the next time I went out to Indiana, I actually ran with her gym team. You know, the next time out there, it's like we got that close, yeah. Yeah. Then with the other Jessica, I was running late because I screwed up and I messed up the rental cars. I flew into Nashville and the race was an hour and a half up in Clarksville, near the Kentucky border, and so I ended up having to take an Uber up there because I screwed up with the rental car. And so I ubered up there and like I'm texting Spartan on messenger saying cuz like the last wave was to start at 12 but like I'm not gonna get there until Like maybe 12, 15. Oh, like can I still run? Like I just flew from Rhode Island, I'm like I just paid a hundred bucks for an Uber.

Speaker 2: 52:30

I was like I want.

Speaker 3: 52:33

Yeah. So they're like yeah, they're like when you get here to like just get to registration immediately and get out on the course as fast as you can, it's like alright. So as I'm running looking for the start line, there's these three, three women, they, they. They were kind of looking like they were running late too, and so I was like do you know what the start line is? And all three of them ignored me and just ran off. I'm like okay, thank, you. And so I ended up finding the start line and they were a little bit ahead ahead of me, so there was some bobbin and weaving before we go into the woods. And so as I'm coming up on the woods, I see the three of them standing at the opening of the woods and they're like, would you mind hanging with us? Like we don't want to be in the woods. Oh, oh, a second ago right second ago I was trying to get info and y'all just turn your noses to me, right? So so I ended up staying with staying with them and, you know, doing it a lot faster I mean longer than it would have taken me, because usually I can do a super in and about an hour and 40, you know. So there it took us like four hours and 20 minutes, but. But I stayed with them. But with one of the women were like besties even still. It's like we chat at least three or four times a Week and eventually I'm gonna get back out there to rate to race with her again. But yes, just just amazing all the friendships that that form out there. Yeah and just like, like you was saying, just from simply stopping to just say hi, give it help. Or like with me, with me and Laura, just so you know we're racing.

Speaker 2: 54:06

Yeah, we just went. Win at each other the entire race by the way, I'm coming for you today, right, yeah, yeah, I'm a big believer in karma as well, and and what goes around comes around, right. So I'd like to. I've got this, really. I mean, I'm gonna say it out loud, I haven't really told anyone this, but so I'm gonna say this for the first time. But yeah, I was on a very long race a couple of years back and I needed some. I was like, man, I just need, I need something to go my way, and so it was on a road, I was doing a 300 kilometer race and it was all on roads, and so it was on back roads of Texas, and I don't know if you've ever. I'm sure they have the same thing in Rhode Island, but there's a lot of roadkill on the back roads of Texas, and so yeah, I've been to Texas yeah. And so I don't know why, but as I so I kept going past this roadkill and I would at some point. I turned to the possum, whatever it was, on the run. I was like, yeah, I'm sorry, man, I'm sorry that happened to you, like I don't know that anybody else is really here, sort of consoling you for having passed away and whatnot. Totally looking back on that, even saying it out loud feels completely ridiculous. But I was looking for a karma, you know, and I was looking for a. Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do something for that possum, because nobody else is gonna do it. So I'm gonna say, look, I'm sorry, I'm sorry this happened to you and it sounds utterly bizarre and it is utterly bizarre. But I'm just looking for a karma, I'm just looking for some good juju from somewhere to say, oh yeah, you know you took a moment to Go say something about. So every time I passed roadkill and I do it to this day, I do, I do it while I'm driving to work. Years later, if I see anything that's on the side of the road, I I give a minute and just say I'm sorry, I'm sorry that happened to you, and just I'm just looking for a good feedback, you know, and yeah that's uniquely yours. Weirdos like whatever, whatever.

Speaker 3: 56:04

Whatever people have to do to stay in a positive head headspace is what it is, you know, like, like with with me I have to craft scenarios like especially if I'm doing a one of the longer races because running I don't enjoy, running I never had yeah, I like the obstacles and I like the hill climbs, like, like, I'm in it for those two. The other stuff, I'll do it if I have to yeah but like that's, that's not why I'm in it. So when I'm, when I'm out there and I'm running, I'll look ahead and I'd be like guy in the orange hat. I'm taking them by mile four. Oh right, and I just zero in on that. Yeah then when I catch that person, I look up ahead All right, that person red shirt, running them down, and it just have to craft those. Those scenarios Like same thing again might seem, seem weird, but it works for me, yeah. So like I don't, I don't judge what anybody else does to give themselves that mental edge, because yeah, we all have our, our unique things like and that's mine Like I race with people who don't even know me from a hole in the wall, oh, but that's what gets me to that next gear.

Speaker 2: 57:10

Absolutely. I have a friend that does something very similar. He calls it fishing. So, yeah, cast a line and you grab the person in front of you, the person in orange in your case, and then you reel them in. Right, you're trying to reel them, and then you cast your line again, so the night, and you just kind of calls it fishing. We're going fishing is what do you say?

Speaker 1: 57:27

So yeah, basically just trying to catch the person ahead of you.

Speaker 2: 57:29

But it makes it a fun, a fun game in the middle of a terrible event where you feel like crap. They're just a bit of fun, you know.

Speaker 3: 57:39

Yeah, yeah, see, and I like traveling for these things too. Going back to what you were saying about liking the challenge of it, it obviously if you go to a mountain course, you know you're going up and down the hills, like you know that. But when you go to other regions like in 2015 was the first time I did one outside of New England I went to Ohio, right, and that was just a whole different ballgame. Like there's a lot of water crossings. That was sand. Yeah the one in Indiana was like 75% sand. It was on like those sand, those, those sand dune courses. Yeah like those, those race car sand dunes, yeah, so it's, oh, there was, it was pretty hilly but it was mostly sand. Oh, and I was like okay, like I was not prepared for saying for sure, and then went down to Florida and just the swamp crossings, like you, just that muddy, that muddy swamp. At one point, remember, at mile seven, we got into the swamp but we didn't get out till mile nine. We spent two solid miles Just trekking in that swamp. Yeah, everybody's fallen left and right because it's slippery in there. Yeah, and it is Florida, so you got the, the stress, like are there alligators in there? So then there's that. But like, yeah, like every region has their different, their different elements. Like I just went to South Carolina in November To do all three, actually, because we did the beast on Saturday, we did the super in the spring on Sunday, so it's called a trifecta weekend, but same same thing. There it was hills, there was water, there was mud, there were rocks, there was sand, there was red clay, like there were just so many different elements to these races. And, as I said, I've been as far west as Indiana. Yeah, I was supposed to go to go to Dallas a few years ago. But yeah, remember I said I ended up going to South Carolina but I heard that the Dallas course, especially if it rains, it's super, super muddy.

Speaker 2: 59:35

Oh.

Speaker 3: 59:35

But, uh, but for some reason I want to experience that yeah, I think it's a way down there.

Speaker 2: 59:40

Yeah, it's back to those challenges, right? You test yourself in a variety of environments and then you learn from that, whether you are ultimately successful or not and hopefully you are, but either way, you're gonna learn how do I respond when I have this new challenge in front of me and what am I gonna do to get around it? Because I Haven't run in mud before, I haven't run up a mountain before, I haven't run at 12,000 feet elevation before. How the hell does my body respond to that? I don't know. But I'm gonna go, do it and I'll. Either I'll either be successful and be okay or I won't, and I'll learn that. Okay, I either either that's not for me, it will never work or I've got to do something really different in training if I want to try one of those races again. And that's going back to my friend who's doing the triple crown. That's kind of the mentality we got. I mean, she wasn't upset that she didn't finish the races because she learned all sorts about herself Throughout the process. But I love that just going different places. I race, I'm English, so I I go back to England and I race over in England. That's a completely different, different terrain, different setup, different culture, different aid stations, different everything. So that's a completely unique challenge to, and learning to do that. And then bringing some of that back here and Incorporating it into racing over here in the US is really cool. It's nice to be able to do that. But yeah, it's all about the challenge in a world that's ultimately Like way too convenient for people.

Speaker 3: 1:01:03

I think yeah yeah, I want to have you on my, on my show too, because I want to get, I want to get your story. You know how you, how you got, got into all this and got into the ultra running and I'm sure there's a whole lot there.

Speaker 2: 1:01:17

There is. And like, like every good story and every good Englishman, my story starts in a pub over beers. That's my intro to my story and that's how I got into this utterly ridiculous thing that we do here of massive miles of Running and hiking. But yes, it starts in a pub. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 1:01:39

Yeah, we'll definitely get that. Get that on on the schedule. I paused it for I think I've paused it since April I want to say April, maybe May, and Because, like I wanted to focus on building up the gym and so we're pretty much ready, ready to take off over there Now, going into January brilliant. So like I'm gonna gonna get get the show started up again, so I'll send you a link. Yeah and you can just pick a, pick a time on there and it's just the way you do yours. It's free, free, free flowing, like I don't need any. I don't need any bios or anything, any talking points, any. That's just very, very organic. I'm very skilled at picking people's brains perfect. So like I'll get, I'll get that story right idea.

Speaker 2: 1:02:22

Well, hopefully, hopefully, I have one left at that point. I got a few races coming up and they're gonna be a challenge. So I've got a couple of warm-up events, one in two weeks. I've got a hundred K in two weeks and then a 50 mile a couple of weeks after that and then my big one for a here. I've got a 200 mile race in I think it's North Carolina, running down the outer banks of North Carolina Really, which is a beautiful place, and again, part of the allure for me is travel. So I like to go places that I've never been before and I think, yeah, seeing these places on foot is a completely different experience to driving through or around or to these places and staying in a hotel or whatever else. So I get to, I purposely take myself places to see them on foot and so, yeah, I'm loving this one. There are lighthouses, there are wild horses, there's beach running road, running through towns, and it's it's one of these races, that sort of self-supported, so there are no aid stations, there is nobody helping you. You put everything you need in your pack and you go and you've got a. You know there's a GPS watching you go, but ultimately it's you. You decide where you stop, you decide when you stop, you decide when you sleep or where when you eat. It's completely up to you and I think that's in for me. It's just, it's beautiful. You just it's your power. You go and you make those decisions All the way, and I think that's a fantastic way to spend. I mean, it's a five-day race, so you got to figure it out over five days, all those challenges that will come up over that time span. So I'm thoroughly looking forward to that race at the end of February.

Speaker 3: 1:03:59

So hopefully it's not yeah it's good, as you're talking, I'm dragging, I'm jotting stuff down down over here that I want to ask when you come on my. Yeah, there's so much I want to dive, dive into about all that.

Speaker 2: 1:04:14

Well, before we close out this chat, thoroughly enjoyed it. We do like to encourage guests to choose a song to add, so the free choose to enjoy a playlist. It's out there on spot, if I have anyone wants to go check it out. It's usually something to lift you up or motivate you or something that just gets your butt moving while you're while you're out Doing one of these races. Rob, did you have a song You'd care to add to the list and, if so, what is it and and why does it resonate with you?

Speaker 3: 1:04:42

Simply the best by Tina Turner.

Speaker 2: 1:04:44

Oh Classic 19 late 80s late 80s Tina Turner classic.

Speaker 3: 1:04:52

Behind that one is because I'm a super confident person and just I know, like even now, I still, I still compete in track, track meets and you know the old man division. Yeah, like before every meet I put that song on because, like even now, when I'm working with with my track team, I was like you can be the hunter or you can be be the hunted mm-hmm. And I was like, when you're the hunted, you train different. He just do. And so I play that song. So I go into it Knowing that I'm going to be hunted at this meet, but I'm simply the best.

Speaker 2: 1:05:29

All right, I love it. I love it. Great job, great choice, fantastic song. Did we lose Tina Turner? This this year, I think? Did she pass away, or am I thinking of something? Either way, fantastic singer nonetheless and a great song, so Fantastic. So as we come to the close of another episode, just I want to thank my guest, rob, again for his Fantastic time and insights. Thank you, rob. These Spartan events seem pretty awesome and really quite complimentary from an ultra runner perspective. So if you are Looking, maybe, to change it up a little bit, listener, from your regular ultra running training, which can get pretty kind of monotonous, or you're looking for some extra cross training with a purpose, still keeping that competitive element and Using some of the same lessons and techniques that you're probably already working on, or you should be working on, at least from a strength perspective or you just think it sounds fun, definitely consider going out. Maybe not the ultra 50k fun, but consider going out to the sort of Spartan website checking it out. I'll put a link in the show notes so you can go to check out any courses and races that might be close to you. In the meantime, don't fix forget to subscribe to the show. That way you get notified every time a new episode comes out and, of course, follow, share and Review. Doing any of those things really does tighten up the algorithms and it helps others find the show too. So if you are already one of the endurance nation out there, maybe you can help a friend discover the show too. You can find us all over social media. We're at choose to enjoy calm, and right now we're just starting up over on YouTube as well, so you can be sure to head out, head over there and check us out if you have a moment. Until then, remember to run long, run strong and Choose to enjoy.

Speaker 1: 1:07:23

Thanks for running with us at the choose to endure podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. We had a blast. If you did, make sure to like rate and review and we'll be back soon. Keep racking up the miles and the stories and we'll catch you at the next trailhead. Until then, remember to run long, run strong.