May 3, 2024

Red Dirt Revelations: Scott & Kurt’s 100-Mile Louisiana Adventure & Review

Red Dirt Revelations: Scott & Kurt’s 100-Mile Louisiana Adventure & Review
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Season 1

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Ever wondered how the body and mind recover after a grueling 100-mile ultra marathon? Kurt Lacroix and Scott Weidenbacher, ultrarunning powerhouses, join us to unravel that very mystery - sharing their contrasting post-race recovery experiences after the Red Dirt Ultra. Their insights into the Louisiana trail, from its looping course to the unpredictable elements that runners face, will arm you with the know-how to tackle your next ultra challenge or simply leave you in awe of their endurance feats.

As we tread the mental pathways of ultra marathons, we unveil the essence of partnerships forged on the trails. From the support of pacers to the exhilarating rush of beating cutoff times, Kurt and Scott illuminate the psychological landscape shaped by determination, adaptability, and the occasional dose of humor when navigating the night's terrain. Listen to stories of camaraderie and strategy that reveal why an ultra marathon is as much a test of mental fortitude as it is of physical endurance.

To cap off this episode, we celebrate the community bonds that are the backbone of the ultra running world. Discover how the unwavering support of crew members and friendships formed in the throes of competition can carry you across the finish line. We also probe strategies for staying active and agile as our bodies age, the importance of a compelling 'why' for embarking on these distances, and the energizing power of the right trail anthem. Tune in for heartfelt tales and tips that resonate with every step of your running journey.

Website:
https://www.choosetoendure.com/

YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@ChoosetoEndure

Instagram:
https://instagram.com/choose_to_endure?utm_source=qr

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552757049526

Chapters

00:00 - Ultra Running Podcast

13:00 - Ultra Racing and Bonded Partnerships

17:37 - Challenges and Successes in Ultra Trail

28:56 - Improving Course Markings for Night Races

34:47 - Ultra Race Mental Toughness Testimony

39:43 - Ultra Running Community Bonds and Recovery

47:51 - Post-Race Recovery Strategies and Techniques

52:34 - Ultra Distance Running

56:51 - Ultra Running Race and Music Choices

01:06:52 - Choose to Endure Podcast Sign Off

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:00.059 --> 00:00:01.062
Hello and welcome.

00:00:01.062 --> 00:00:04.626
If this is your first time with us, thank you for stopping by.

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You're listening to Choose to Endure the show dedicated to the back of the pack runners, where we share stories, interviews, gear and training tips specific to the tail end heroes of the ultra universe.

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If you haven't had a moment to do so yet, please consider heading over to your favorite podcast app, maybe even the one you're listening on right now.

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Hit, follow, rate the show and, if you're on Apple, maybe even leave a short review too.

00:00:32.643 --> 00:00:33.966
My name is Richard Gleave.

00:00:33.966 --> 00:00:37.494
I've been running ultras since 2017.

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I have taken on and finished numerous distances, all the way up through 220 miles, and I am unashamedly a member of the back of the pack.

00:00:47.341 --> 00:00:56.862
Just like you are here in the studio with me today, I am honored to welcome Kurt Lacroix and Scott Weidenbacher.

00:00:56.862 --> 00:01:00.210
Now, kurt and Scott are no strangers to ultra running.

00:01:00.210 --> 00:01:27.495
A quick glance at their ultra sign-up history shows Kurt finishing Children of the Cane 100 miler, in addition to a few other races, and Scott has previously completed the Wildcat Ultras 100 miler, prior to both of them taking on the race which they're here to talk with us about today, which is the Red Dirt Ultra 100-mile race over in Louisiana, which they completed this past February.

00:01:27.495 --> 00:01:30.569
We're hopefully going to learn a little bit about the race itself.

00:01:30.569 --> 00:01:43.507
We're going to hear the story of how the guys' race went a few weeks back and, lastly, discover why you may or may not want to consider adding this event to your 2025 calendar.

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So stick with us.

00:01:44.671 --> 00:01:47.046
We're going to be right back after this.

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Discover raw, inspiring stories from runners who've been right where you are.

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This is the Choose to Endure Ultra Running Podcast with your host he's English, not Australian Richard Gleave host.

00:02:07.831 --> 00:02:10.058
He's English, not Australian, Richard Gleave.

00:02:10.058 --> 00:02:15.082
So, kurt and Scott, welcome to the show.

00:02:15.082 --> 00:02:15.625
Fantastic to have you on.

00:02:15.625 --> 00:02:16.408
It's been a short while since your run.

00:02:16.408 --> 00:02:18.276
I hope you're both rested up and healing well at this point.

00:02:18.276 --> 00:02:19.180
How are you guys feeling?

00:02:19.180 --> 00:02:20.686
I'm feeling pretty good.

00:02:21.501 --> 00:02:22.143
I'm feeling good.

00:02:22.143 --> 00:02:27.085
I took a couple weeks off with some minor knee pain Started back April 1st.

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Back on the road.

00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:29.104
Oh man, that's pretty good.

00:02:29.104 --> 00:02:33.649
Yeah, I would take a race with minor knee pain afterwards at this age for sure.

00:02:33.649 --> 00:02:34.852
Kurt, how about you?

00:02:35.582 --> 00:02:36.620
A little different than Scott.

00:02:36.620 --> 00:02:38.362
I mean literally.

00:02:38.362 --> 00:02:39.264
I think.

00:02:39.264 --> 00:02:43.954
We got back from the race and probably three days later I was back out.

00:02:43.954 --> 00:02:56.211
I put in a lot of miles and although the race was painful and it hurt, I rebounded really quick and was able to get back on the road.

00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:04.929
Do you think is it just because you put in the miles in advance, you feel like your body just knows how to recover from that, or was there something specific you were doing in the training?

00:03:04.929 --> 00:03:06.573
You think that helped from that regard?

00:03:07.640 --> 00:03:13.554
I do think the volume that I put in definitely helped in that aspect.

00:03:13.554 --> 00:03:24.308
I get to the point where I want to go out and get exhausted every weekend and it might not just be from running, it might be doing just my everyday tasks.

00:03:24.308 --> 00:03:32.282
Like I'll get up in the morning, go run 30 miles and then I'm like, oh crud, I got to cut the grass, you know, and I got to do this, got to wash the cars.

00:03:32.282 --> 00:03:46.062
So just going out there and trying to get totally exhausted in a day I think has definitely helped in that recovery phase to where I was able to step back in and start, you know, loading on miles right away Fantastic.

00:03:46.201 --> 00:03:46.985
Well, I think that's awesome.

00:03:46.985 --> 00:03:48.710
That's a great lesson for everybody out there.

00:03:48.710 --> 00:04:00.372
To you know, get in some miles, and active recovery and active training in advance can really assist, I think, though I mean so we're talking Red Dirt Ultra here, specifically the 100 miler.

00:04:00.372 --> 00:04:01.983
Maybe that's where we should start.

00:04:01.983 --> 00:04:10.862
If I can chuck it over to to you guys, like give us an overview of the race itself for anybody listening that might not be familiar with that particular event is it a?

00:04:10.862 --> 00:04:11.745
Is it a point to point?

00:04:11.745 --> 00:04:12.728
Is it time loop?

00:04:12.728 --> 00:04:14.491
Whereabouts does this race take place?

00:04:14.491 --> 00:04:16.687
Kind of paint the picture, if you will, of of what.

00:04:16.687 --> 00:04:18.776
What is the red dirt ultra 100?

00:04:18.997 --> 00:04:20.723
I'll say a little something, then I'm going to give it over.

00:04:20.723 --> 00:04:22.466
I'll let sc Scott kind of finish.

00:04:22.466 --> 00:04:24.692
Yeah, so it is here.

00:04:24.692 --> 00:04:25.192
It is a.

00:04:25.192 --> 00:04:35.877
I'm not going to say it's a local race to, to, to Scott or I, but it is within our state, we're, you know, we're within a, we're within a, I'm within a four mile drive.

00:04:35.877 --> 00:04:38.882
Scott's a little further, but we didn't know a whole lot about it.

00:04:38.882 --> 00:04:42.668
Scott knew more about it than I did, cause he had talked to some people who had done it.

00:04:42.668 --> 00:04:48.716
So I'll kind of I'll, I'll kick it over to Scott and he can kind of tell you what he had heard about the race first.

00:04:49.180 --> 00:04:55.904
Sure, yeah, I had, uh, I had talked to, we had just finished another race last at the end of last year, and we're looking for another race to do.

00:04:55.904 --> 00:05:01.665
I had some acquaintances that I had run, you know, over the years with that had done the red dirt ultra.

00:05:01.665 --> 00:05:06.374
They ran, raved about how good of a course it was, how well-maintained the aid stations were.

00:05:06.374 --> 00:05:11.952
It was really, you know, runner-friendly with aid stations and help all along the course.

00:05:11.952 --> 00:05:15.430
So that's kind of how I had that one on the calendar, kind of looking at it.

00:05:15.430 --> 00:05:20.932
When we decided we wanted to do that race, we really started kind of diving in and looking at the schematics of it.

00:05:20.932 --> 00:05:23.509
It was a 16-mile loop, okay.

00:05:25.620 --> 00:05:26.281
So we had multiple loops to do.

00:05:26.281 --> 00:05:27.444
All right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna kill him right there.

00:05:27.444 --> 00:05:28.887
So it wasn't a 16 mile loop.

00:05:28.887 --> 00:05:32.562
Maybe in his brain it was richard, but it was actually a 30.

00:05:32.562 --> 00:05:39.274
It was actually a 33.3333 mile loop oh wait, wait, you are correct.

00:05:39.293 --> 00:05:41.163
You see, it's been so long, I already forgot.

00:05:41.163 --> 00:05:42.687
I was hoping it was 16.

00:05:43.028 --> 00:05:49.389
Kurt, kurt is absolutely correct it's that compartmentalization right, like to me, it was only to hit.

00:05:49.408 --> 00:05:57.312
To me it felt like 900 mile loops, but that's yeah, so there was another race we did some years back and it was a 16 mile loop.

00:05:57.312 --> 00:06:01.211
So he's he's correct 33 mile loop, which was a really, you know, a long loop.

00:06:01.211 --> 00:06:02.134
That's a big loop.

00:06:02.134 --> 00:06:04.485
Yeah, I underestimated the elevation.

00:06:04.485 --> 00:06:08.107
For sure, there was definitely some elevation gain and loss during that race.

00:06:08.107 --> 00:06:14.471
But as far as the setup and what I had heard about the race, people were spot on, the aid stations were very well maintained.

00:06:14.471 --> 00:06:22.146
The course could have been marked, I think, a little bit better and, kurt, you can probably speak to that as well A little bit better probably could have been marked, especially for nighttime.

00:06:22.146 --> 00:06:26.654
But all in all, we drew some pretty good weather.

00:06:26.654 --> 00:06:28.326
Although it was cold, it was pretty good weather.

00:06:28.326 --> 00:06:30.889
We didn't have to worry about the sun beating down or too hot.

00:06:30.889 --> 00:06:32.685
Aid stations were full.

00:06:32.685 --> 00:06:38.963
They had hot food, they had cold food, they had electrolytes Everything you would really look for at a race as a runner.

00:06:38.963 --> 00:06:40.846
They had at that location.

00:06:41.107 --> 00:06:47.396
So yeah, richard, is a total cutoff time of 33 hours for this one, like Scott's.

00:06:47.396 --> 00:06:49.545
Like Scott was corrected already.

00:06:49.545 --> 00:06:51.992
Uh see, I'm going to get my, I'm going to get my jabs in.

00:06:51.992 --> 00:06:53.362
That was 33.

00:06:53.362 --> 00:06:56.149
Yeah, 30, 33, 33 mile loop.

00:06:56.851 --> 00:06:59.459
I didn't know anything about the race.

00:06:59.459 --> 00:07:09.257
I mean I've heard about it, I know people who have done it, but I've never asked in detail because it wasn't in my consideration, I think when Scott started talking about it.

00:07:09.257 --> 00:07:17.774
What got me interested in it is all of the training block leading up to the race would be in fair weather for us here.

00:07:17.774 --> 00:07:21.646
I mean Scott's in Pensacola, florida, hot.

00:07:21.646 --> 00:07:23.569
I'm in South Louisiana, hot.

00:07:23.569 --> 00:07:45.156
So putting in a lot of miles during the summer it just takes a big toll on you, it wears you out, whereas when you start training in South Louisiana and Pensacola in October, november, december, it's relatively mild and you can put in a bunch of chunks of miles and recover quicker and can do it.

00:07:45.156 --> 00:07:49.889
So that kind of piqued my interest because I'm like, okay, I can put in a lot of chunks of miles.

00:07:49.889 --> 00:07:54.896
I mean I can go out and run, I could take a month straight and I could take every weekend and I could go.

00:07:54.896 --> 00:07:57.983
Hey, I can run 26 on Saturday and I can go run 10 on Sunday.

00:07:57.983 --> 00:08:03.810
It was that kind of deal because it wasn't that hot and it was easier to recover for the training.

00:08:04.391 --> 00:08:22.033
I had no idea how hilly and how much terrain and ups and downs this course had until until so, until we, when we got out there, we we had some ideas of what kind of pacing we were going to try to attempt and everything.

00:08:22.033 --> 00:08:28.865
And we we had a seasoned veteran who had actually, I think, in his I don't know if he did it once or twice, but he came in third.

00:08:28.865 --> 00:08:39.620
So relatively, relatively relatively fast guy, and Scott and I kind of were like oh yeah, we're going to, you know, we're going to 15 minute pace and everything.

00:08:39.620 --> 00:08:40.602
And he just goes.

00:08:40.602 --> 00:08:45.164
Okay, man, you guys, just, you know, stay to the, you know, keep your nose down and keep at it.

00:08:45.164 --> 00:08:47.384
He knew and he didn't tell us.

00:08:47.826 --> 00:08:48.366
Yeah, he knew.

00:08:48.889 --> 00:08:50.592
Yeah, excellent.

00:08:50.592 --> 00:08:58.474
That's kind of fun that he sort of let you at it and kind of just let you go for it without giving you the heads up.

00:08:58.514 --> 00:09:02.208
Yeah, after that first loop, we knew Well, yes, we knew quick.

00:09:02.409 --> 00:09:03.903
We knew quick too, absolutely.

00:09:03.903 --> 00:09:04.004
Know.

00:09:04.004 --> 00:09:04.466
Well, yes, we knew quick.

00:09:04.466 --> 00:09:05.092
We knew quick too, absolutely.

00:09:05.092 --> 00:09:06.139
So let's talk race strategy for a minute.

00:09:06.139 --> 00:09:12.481
It looks like, as I look at ultra sign up, it looks like you guys ultimately ended up finishing together.

00:09:12.481 --> 00:09:14.225
Yep, was that the plan?

00:09:14.225 --> 00:09:16.510
And and if that, if that was the plan, how did?

00:09:16.510 --> 00:09:18.924
Because I, you know it's tough to go through.

00:09:18.924 --> 00:09:20.850
I think it took 31 hours.

00:09:20.850 --> 00:09:34.333
If I read the, if I read the correct, correct, I mean, it's tough to stay together actively for 31 hours with another person, through all the ebbs and flows of a race into and out of aid stations and so on.

00:09:34.333 --> 00:09:35.783
So, was that the plan?

00:09:35.783 --> 00:09:41.984
Did you intend to stick together the whole way from the outset and, if so, how did you make that happen?

00:09:42.585 --> 00:09:44.469
Kurt, I'll start, then you can yeah, you can jump in.

00:09:44.469 --> 00:09:46.533
So a little bit of backstory.

00:09:46.533 --> 00:09:52.019
So Kurt and I lived around the corner from each other for a bunch of years and we worked together in Louisiana.

00:09:52.019 --> 00:09:59.004
I moved to Pensacola from Baton Rouge so I'm very familiar with you, know Kurt and where he ran and we would run every morning together.

00:09:59.004 --> 00:10:01.511
For we probably did it for a couple of years before we moved.

00:10:01.511 --> 00:10:07.044
So, pace wise, we would train at the same pace.

00:10:07.044 --> 00:10:08.913
You know we had a different pace if we're training for a marathon or for an ultra.

00:10:08.913 --> 00:10:11.988
So so we would train at the same pace and we kind of kept the same pace training.

00:10:11.988 --> 00:10:13.796
We kept the same training schedule.

00:10:13.796 --> 00:10:23.067
So even when I moved to Pensacola, if I look at Kurt's run and Kurt looks at my run, we're within, you know, 15 seconds each mile of where each other's are.

00:10:23.067 --> 00:10:24.630
That's kind of how we're training together.

00:10:24.630 --> 00:10:28.139
Know 15 seconds each mile of where each other's are, that's kind of how we're training together.

00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:31.250
Our goal when we started was you know, we're going to stick together, we're going to keep each other motivated.

00:10:31.250 --> 00:10:32.575
You know you got peaks and valleys, as you know.

00:10:32.575 --> 00:10:36.730
So one person is peaking, the other person might be in a little lull or kind of down themselves.

00:10:36.730 --> 00:10:39.522
So it's kind of, like you said, the ebbs and flow of the racing.

00:10:39.522 --> 00:10:42.666
We kind of keep each other going, keep each other going, keep each other motivated.

00:10:42.666 --> 00:10:47.130
You know, just kind of when I needed Kurt's there to pull me, and when Kurt needs it, I'm there to pull him.

00:10:47.130 --> 00:10:51.655
So our strategy was to start out and to finish and cross that line together.

00:10:51.655 --> 00:10:52.135
Yep.

00:10:55.639 --> 00:10:58.427
So this all kind of Richard, this all kind of stems back.

00:10:58.427 --> 00:11:01.113
I completed my first one in 2020.

00:11:01.113 --> 00:11:10.304
It's a local race here, no longer running as of right now, but when I did, I did that one Scott Scott wasn't.

00:11:10.304 --> 00:11:17.984
He had done some runs and he had done this actual same race, but in a shorter distance, so he had seen the course before he had seen the course before that.

00:11:18.063 --> 00:11:21.403
I that I did, but on that one that was kind of like my soul.

00:11:21.403 --> 00:11:31.735
That was my solo mission and I think I you asked about our bio and stuff like that and I kicked it back to a lot of my running stuff.

00:11:31.735 --> 00:11:37.115
And what keeps me going forward is it's something my dad and I used to do together and that's how we bonded.

00:11:37.115 --> 00:11:38.681
But fast forward.

00:11:38.681 --> 00:11:46.975
Scott had not done 100 yet and he had a local race in his backyard called Wildcat Ultras and same deal.

00:11:46.975 --> 00:11:48.202
He had run the course several times.

00:11:48.202 --> 00:11:49.206
He knew what it was all about.

00:11:49.206 --> 00:11:51.292
I had no idea what it was about.

00:11:51.292 --> 00:11:56.029
All I told him is that I'm either going to come pace you or I'm going to come run it.

00:11:56.029 --> 00:12:05.389
Well, I got into a point there where I was having a great training session through the summer, richard, and it was just a great time.

00:12:05.389 --> 00:12:14.029
I was feeling good, I had race aspirations, I had goals, I was going to go out there and I was going to knock this race out in 24 hours.

00:12:14.029 --> 00:12:17.148
Well, lo and behold, I got humbled really quickly.

00:12:17.148 --> 00:12:18.270
I only made it.

00:12:18.270 --> 00:12:22.590
You know, the running ultras will do it to you real quick.

00:12:22.590 --> 00:12:25.206
So I got humbled and I did not make.

00:12:25.206 --> 00:12:26.331
I didn't make it.

00:12:26.331 --> 00:12:27.645
I only made it through 50 miles.

00:12:27.645 --> 00:12:29.081
But Scott had another.

00:12:29.081 --> 00:12:33.293
We had another friend out there and they and those two got through that race.

00:12:33.293 --> 00:12:36.690
I actually came back out the next morning, even after I left the course.

00:12:36.690 --> 00:12:42.681
I came back out the next morning and did a few loops with Scott and he and let him finish on his own with his wife.

00:12:42.681 --> 00:12:59.760
But I think when I saw that camaraderie between Scott and the other guy his name is Jeremy I think at that point, that's when I made my decision that I guess I need to do these with somebody and not try to act like that.

00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:03.087
I am some guy who's going to go out there and beat a time.

00:13:03.087 --> 00:13:14.744
I think every race for me going forward, my attitude is I'm there for one thing and that's to start, and it's to finish and beat the time, beat the cutoff time.

00:13:14.744 --> 00:13:18.278
So that's what I rate and from now on that's what I'm going to race against.

00:13:18.278 --> 00:13:24.097
And so when scott and I started talking about red dirt, I mean I was bitter still.

00:13:24.097 --> 00:13:31.419
You know, I I just come off a race that I dnf'd and I was, I was bitter and I needed, I needed to win.

00:13:31.419 --> 00:13:32.361
I think at one point.

00:13:32.361 --> 00:13:36.575
I think at one point in time I think scott and I were on the second loop and I told him.

00:13:36.575 --> 00:13:39.839
I said this is it for me, dude, for me, dude.

00:13:39.839 --> 00:13:44.505
I said if I don't finish this, I said nothing else matters at this point.

00:13:44.505 --> 00:13:51.880
That's one cool thing about Ultra 2 that I like, richard, when you're out there, nothing else matters except for that.

00:13:52.490 --> 00:14:06.881
And I think at that point in time, knowing that I had somebody there who was going to see the thing through with me the whole way, it just gives you that extra boost of confidence and it just cleared the way.

00:14:06.881 --> 00:14:09.857
We had some struggles along the way and we'll get into it.

00:14:09.857 --> 00:14:20.654
But I think having that other person there it's different than a pacer, right, a pacer's cool and you're going to pick a pacer up and they're going to give you a little shot in the arm and everything.

00:14:20.654 --> 00:14:29.399
But knowing that, hey, sometimes pacers don't show up, right, I've had the guy, I'll be there, and he didn't show up.

00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:33.813
And then I'm like, oh gosh, now you're pulling people from, who wants to come run?

00:14:34.254 --> 00:14:39.000
Knowing that I had a built in person that wasn't going to leave.

00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:47.941
And there was a lot of times there when he was dragging me along, and I was glad to have it, but it was never a doubt that we weren't going to finish together.

00:14:47.941 --> 00:14:50.678
That's kind of how this whole thing started.

00:14:50.678 --> 00:14:52.417
And we do have another one coming up.

00:14:52.417 --> 00:14:55.980
I'm going to get my redemption at that Wildcat race in August.

00:14:55.980 --> 00:14:58.778
So that's where we are right now.

00:14:59.389 --> 00:15:13.995
Yep yep, yeah, I think that's a really interesting dichotomy there with with okay, you could have a pacer and you can run with somebody, and effectively both of them you end up with a person running with you, but the two can be really different experience within, within the race.

00:15:13.995 --> 00:15:31.899
You know, I feel like, especially when you've had somebody with you for the whole race, like, like you guys are running together right from the outset, where a pacer can step in, can step out, they're kind of a little more, I mean, granted, they're there to get you to the finish, that's part of their job, but you know, they're a little bit more detached from it maybe.

00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:41.722
I don't know, they're not as invested I feel like you know you pick the pacer up either when it gets dark or usually around the 50-mile mark by that time.

00:15:41.722 --> 00:15:53.924
Kurt and I have already spent 12 hours together, 13 hours together, and we're so invested at that point that if our pacer doesn't show up or something happens and they get sick and can't come, we're still there and we're halfway through.

00:15:53.945 --> 00:15:58.576
I think I told Scott when we were finishing or wherever we were on that race.

00:15:58.576 --> 00:16:03.304
I said the only thing that matters is me or you and I finishing this thing.

00:16:03.304 --> 00:16:05.456
I said I could get fired from my job on Monday.

00:16:05.456 --> 00:16:06.539
I don't care.

00:16:06.539 --> 00:16:08.837
I don't care as long as I finish this race.

00:16:13.553 --> 00:16:14.355
That was it.

00:16:14.355 --> 00:16:27.466
Interesting and refreshing it is to run these types of races, because everything gets stripped away and all you're left with really is sort of eat, drink and, to some degree, sleep.

00:16:27.466 --> 00:16:37.000
Potentially those, those really fast become the three things you're left with in life and your sole focus for however long it is, until you're done with that race.

00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:50.116
I just thought it was really interesting how fast everything else drops away and you get totally focused on this one goal that you're trying to do and the three big ones eat, drink.

00:16:50.116 --> 00:16:53.003
And the race I was doing was a 200 miler.

00:16:54.395 --> 00:17:01.673
So, for me sleep, and that's there as well, to some degree in in in a hundred miler, but but yeah, really, eat.

00:17:01.673 --> 00:17:11.614
Uh, eat and drink are the two big ones, whichever, whatever you're doing anyway, but yeah, I agree, I think it's really interesting how fast the rest of the world falls apart when that's your sole focus.

00:17:11.614 --> 00:17:17.344
I mean, you get 30 miles in, 40 miles in and everything else is gone Very cool.

00:17:17.344 --> 00:17:22.173
So we talked about reflecting and I think I do think it's important to reflect back on the race.

00:17:22.173 --> 00:17:30.249
So I definitely wanted to ask you because we're starting to get into that side of the conversation too so what went well for you guys during the race?

00:17:30.249 --> 00:17:32.736
What were some things that you thought afterwards, looking back?

00:17:32.736 --> 00:17:34.421
Yeah, we actually did pretty good there.

00:17:35.049 --> 00:17:36.711
I think we stayed.

00:17:36.711 --> 00:17:52.239
Once you get that dose of reality in the arm of really what the trail is, I think we stayed pretty well on our plan and you know our plan originally was, like I said, three loops.

00:17:52.239 --> 00:17:56.037
I think our original plan what was it, scott?

00:17:56.037 --> 00:17:57.737
Eight hours, nine hours, ten hours.

00:17:58.611 --> 00:18:01.122
Yep, eight, nine, ten, okay, and I think we ended up going nine, ten, was it, scott?

00:18:01.122 --> 00:18:02.789
Eight hours, nine hours, 10 hours, yep, eight, nine, 10.

00:18:02.789 --> 00:18:08.934
I think we ended up going nine, 10, 11, right, I'm not mathing out real quick, but it was there about something like that.

00:18:08.934 --> 00:18:16.781
So I think what we did well, richard, is once we saw what we were up against, we adjusted and we nailed it and we stayed on it.

00:18:16.781 --> 00:18:17.501
Yep.

00:18:17.883 --> 00:18:19.703
Yep Scott, how about you?

00:18:19.703 --> 00:18:21.945
What are you thinking on what went well?

00:18:22.507 --> 00:18:23.307
I think the same thing.

00:18:23.307 --> 00:18:33.338
I think we didn't get flustered when we saw the elevation and kind of trailed the first loop and then second loop was the nighttime trail.

00:18:33.338 --> 00:18:37.859
We knew we had another what another loop and a half at night in the dark.

00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:39.603
We didn't get flustered, we knew what it was.

00:18:39.603 --> 00:18:45.614
We slowed our pace just a little bit.

00:18:45.614 --> 00:18:47.441
I think both of us did a really great job at taking in calories and staying hydrated.

00:18:47.441 --> 00:18:48.625
You know, and I think the, I think the calories.

00:18:48.625 --> 00:18:51.095
You know, when I saw kurt eat something, I would try and eat something.

00:18:51.095 --> 00:18:55.854
I'm sure it was same thing for him and we stayed on the calories and, uh, you know we didn't get flustered.

00:18:55.854 --> 00:19:04.759
Like I said, there were some parts where we would come up to, you know, a little creek or a little dip in the in the ground, and we're like I don't remember this from last time it looks steeper.

00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:05.661
You know what do we do?

00:19:07.010 --> 00:19:08.556
They always get steeper, don't they?

00:19:08.715 --> 00:19:10.101
Things look different at two in the morning.

00:19:11.029 --> 00:19:13.457
I'm like, did we even cross this path last time?

00:19:13.457 --> 00:19:21.005
But you know, we didn't let anything bother us, we just went with the flow, we stayed with our routine and and that's kind of how we managed, yeah so what?

00:19:21.105 --> 00:19:23.326
so you guys have mentioned the elevation once or twice.

00:19:23.326 --> 00:19:24.066
Was it like?

00:19:24.066 --> 00:19:26.626
What was the elevation of the uh, of that route?

00:19:26.626 --> 00:19:27.186
Do you remember?

00:19:27.186 --> 00:19:27.847
Was it?

00:19:27.847 --> 00:19:30.794
Well, obviously more than you expected, I would imagine.

00:19:30.814 --> 00:19:38.019
Yeah, for sure, it's an a lot of it is an equestrian trail, so horse trails, and you know horses step.

00:19:38.019 --> 00:19:41.530
Horses can step up uh stuff a lot easier than us humans can.

00:19:41.530 --> 00:19:47.401
Right there there was some not so much the gradual elevation.

00:19:47.401 --> 00:19:52.221
I think I had a nickname for it, I think I was calling it the quad buster, I mean it was it.

00:19:52.221 --> 00:20:19.000
You know, ups are one thing, downs are another, and downs when you get fatigued, downs when you get fatigued, they're so hard to control, especially when they're steep, and I'm just sitting here going, either I'm gonna twist an ankle, I'm gonna bust my butt and I'm like don't step in a rut, you know, especially when you're going down, because hey, look, you can't, you can't see, you can't really tell from our pictures right here, our builds.

00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:23.486
But I weigh a little more than Scott does, just by a bit.

00:20:25.611 --> 00:20:26.955
Is he allowed to say that, Scott?

00:20:27.096 --> 00:20:29.496
I don't know If we stand next to each other.

00:20:29.496 --> 00:20:30.579
We look a little different.

00:20:30.579 --> 00:20:33.170
I'm 6'3" and he's A little bit different.

00:20:33.170 --> 00:20:41.884
I'm 6'3", 210, and he's probably 5'9", 5'10" and weighs 100, 5'8", 145.

00:20:41.884 --> 00:20:45.958
So when you're going uphill you can't tell.

00:20:48.041 --> 00:20:49.183
Right, yeah, right.

00:20:49.730 --> 00:20:50.815
All right, let's flip the coin.

00:20:50.815 --> 00:20:53.739
So, things that went well fantastic.

00:20:53.739 --> 00:20:57.259
What were some of the things that didn't go quite so well?

00:20:57.259 --> 00:20:59.699
And I know there's always some in these races.

00:20:59.699 --> 00:21:10.866
What were some of the challenges that you guys faced during the race, and were there any surprises that you hadn't anticipated beforehand, even with the advance notice you'd had from jeremy, was it?

00:21:11.310 --> 00:21:12.031
I think we had some.

00:21:12.031 --> 00:21:16.700
I'll let scott talk about his gear challenges with headlamps and stuff.

00:21:16.700 --> 00:21:18.844
Well, that sounds interesting.

00:21:18.903 --> 00:21:36.112
I think for me I fell more times and I don't ever try to think I'm not going to fall, especially on courses that have a lot of roots and especially when at night I just, you know, your gait changes and you don't pick your feet up as much.

00:21:36.112 --> 00:21:39.576
And yeah, I catch a root here and there and I try to keep my balance.

00:21:39.576 --> 00:21:46.230
But I think I fell a few more times than I did and I had one bad fall too in one of the creek beds.

00:21:46.230 --> 00:21:50.420
That really hurt and that was the only lagging injury I had.

00:21:50.420 --> 00:21:52.150
Once that healed, I think I had a.

00:21:52.150 --> 00:21:57.157
I didn't go ever get an x-ray on my femur, but if it was fractured it might've been.

00:21:57.157 --> 00:22:07.962
I had a really, really deep bruise down to my femur that really hurt, but good thing that didn't happen until what Scott was that mile like 89-ish or something like that.

00:22:08.002 --> 00:22:08.744
So it didn't happen.

00:22:08.744 --> 00:22:10.056
Yeah, close to the end for sure.

00:22:10.911 --> 00:22:12.473
At that point it wouldn't have mattered.

00:22:12.473 --> 00:22:13.635
I think I probably could have.

00:22:13.635 --> 00:22:17.183
I don't say probably, I would have finished if it was broken.

00:22:25.450 --> 00:22:27.195
It would have had to have been in two for me not to finish, but scott did that.

00:22:27.195 --> 00:22:28.440
But scott did have some gear, some gear issues I have.

00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:30.426
I have had over my past probably three races and even training sessions for that matter.

00:22:30.426 --> 00:22:31.971
I've had the worst luck with headlamps.

00:22:31.971 --> 00:22:36.480
Headlamps okay, yeah, I thought I brought two, apparently only brought one.

00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:38.372
I had a spare battery.

00:22:38.372 --> 00:22:39.997
It died the first loop.

00:22:39.997 --> 00:22:42.935
It was 100 charged, died on the the first time.

00:22:42.935 --> 00:22:45.042
I turned it on an hour after it got dark.

00:22:45.042 --> 00:22:46.989
I had a spare battery.

00:22:46.989 --> 00:22:49.413
Couldn't find it the whole time it was in my pack.

00:22:50.036 --> 00:22:52.361
Yes, oh man, that's what it was I had to.

00:22:52.701 --> 00:22:53.383
I had to.

00:22:53.383 --> 00:22:55.375
I was actually offering at the aid stations.

00:22:55.375 --> 00:22:57.161
I was gonna buy someone or venmo their money if they had a headlamp I could have.

00:22:57.161 --> 00:22:58.365
And and at one of the aid stations, one of the guys.

00:22:58.384 --> 00:23:10.102
Someone or venmo them money if they had a headlamp I could have, and and at one of the aid stations, one of the guys when you know, one of the young guys working it had a little bitty like a little square flashlight, so he's like man, just take it so.

00:23:10.102 --> 00:23:15.323
So it was better than nothing, but it didn't give off like a light, like a headlamp does, it was just.

00:23:15.323 --> 00:23:19.066
It was just a light, just a little bitty lamp richard's like a lantern.

00:23:19.468 --> 00:23:20.029
It was horrible.

00:23:20.029 --> 00:23:26.073
So we're running side by side and he's got this thing clipped on his bag and I'm like it's just beaming in my eyes.

00:23:26.073 --> 00:23:26.634
I can't.

00:23:26.634 --> 00:23:29.801
I like, if I turn to talk, if I turn to talk to him, I could.

00:23:29.801 --> 00:23:31.551
I was like can you turn that thing off?

00:23:32.192 --> 00:23:37.160
yeah, yeah, and the whole time this fair battery was in my pack that I was carrying with me.

00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:40.486
It was all all the way at the bottom when he got home he's like oh, I found my battery.

00:23:40.830 --> 00:23:43.019
It was in my bag, at the bottom In my bag.

00:23:43.109 --> 00:23:48.161
I was like yeah, yeah, the headlamp is one of my biggest fears when I'm out running.

00:23:48.161 --> 00:23:53.098
I have so many extra batteries for a headlamp and I've never needed one yet.

00:23:53.380 --> 00:24:03.507
Scott does, but yes, yeah, but that yeah now, but that that just reiterates my fear right there like I'm gonna go back and double and triple check them and put them somewhere I can see them at all times.

00:24:03.886 --> 00:24:08.648
I think I'm gonna start bringing four headlamps with me every time I have a run now yeah, we started.

00:24:08.669 --> 00:24:10.934
You look at, you know, your brain wanders and everything.

00:24:10.934 --> 00:24:12.900
And I was like hey, what is that song?

00:24:12.900 --> 00:24:13.541
What was it?

00:24:13.541 --> 00:24:15.192
The gym blossoms, I think it was.

00:24:15.192 --> 00:24:19.117
You know, we can drive it home with one headlight or one headlamp, and that's what.

00:24:19.117 --> 00:24:20.580
That's what we felt like there.

00:24:20.580 --> 00:24:22.002
I was just like scott.

00:24:22.002 --> 00:24:27.960
I was like scott, just stay right to my side, we'll just use it, we'll just go like this and right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:32.900
When you start leeching off the people in front, behind or next to you, yeah, it was that what gets it worse is.

00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:35.251
Then I'm like, oh wait, I think mine's getting dimmer too now.

00:24:35.251 --> 00:24:39.718
I was like we're gonna be, we're gonna be in trouble here, yeah, yeah, we made it through that.

00:24:39.718 --> 00:24:40.057
We made it.

00:24:40.057 --> 00:24:42.221
We got back to the main aid station in time.

00:24:42.221 --> 00:24:45.970
I had an, I had a spare headlamp and uh, so did he.

00:24:45.970 --> 00:24:48.494
So crisis of crisis averted.

00:24:48.494 --> 00:24:52.542
Yeah, uh, averted other gear, other other things that went.

00:24:52.743 --> 00:24:57.837
I know for me that that was a a shoe changing course for me.

00:24:57.837 --> 00:24:59.601
You, you got wet every you got.

00:24:59.601 --> 00:25:02.224
You got your feet and saw stuff wet every loop.

00:25:02.224 --> 00:25:12.721
So every time we had the main aid station I mean you know how it is, richard, changing socks and shoes, especially when it's 22 degrees out there you're already cold and wet.

00:25:12.721 --> 00:25:15.576
You're cold and wet and it was.

00:25:15.576 --> 00:25:16.679
It's just tough.

00:25:16.679 --> 00:25:23.836
We did get, I mean, we get help, but man, my toes are so jacked up and if I move them one way, they'll, they'll cramp up and everything.

00:25:23.836 --> 00:25:32.903
And I think just the fact that having to change the shoes so my feet didn't get so destroyed was the main thing I still have.

00:25:32.903 --> 00:25:33.673
I just popped up.

00:25:33.673 --> 00:25:35.380
I sent scott a picture the other day.

00:25:35.380 --> 00:25:37.851
I just popped off my last toenail the other day.

00:25:38.773 --> 00:25:47.593
Oh, brilliant, excellent and just to just to piggyback on what kurt said, I think I think gear in general was a was kind of a challenge for that race.

00:25:47.593 --> 00:25:50.097
All the way down to our attire, like it was cold.

00:25:50.097 --> 00:25:56.565
We had at one point I had a hoodie with a quarter zip jacket under it and we had beanie caps on.

00:25:56.565 --> 00:25:59.394
It was cold, it was 22 at night and the wind was blowing.

00:25:59.394 --> 00:26:10.772
And you know, when you left 33 mile loop, when you left for that loop, if you didn't have it with you you weren't getting it for eight hours or nine hours yeah, that's a challenge, yeah I've had a few races like that here in texas.

00:26:10.854 --> 00:26:13.740
I think people underestimate, especially if you come from out of state.

00:26:13.740 --> 00:26:27.343
You underestimate quite it can get pretty cold yep, even though we're down in the south here, yes, it can, and with a wind blowing, and if you happen to get any kind of wet from rain or your feet from a stream, it can get.

00:26:27.343 --> 00:26:29.336
It can get pretty uh yeah, it was cold.

00:26:29.577 --> 00:26:33.089
It was cold one of my biggest fears for this race was my hands.

00:26:33.289 --> 00:26:33.750
I have a.

00:26:33.750 --> 00:26:38.891
I have a slight case of rain odds oh me too, yeah, and so when you know the deal, then it doesn't matter.

00:26:38.891 --> 00:26:43.558
You can wrap them till the day's long once they lose that circulation.

00:26:43.558 --> 00:26:58.778
So I did not have that problem at all this race and this was the first cold race, richard, that I did implement heated gloves, so that was extra gear that I had to carry and extra batteries.

00:26:58.778 --> 00:27:10.641
But wow, that was a difference maker in my hands, for sure, and one of the things that does for me is that keeps all the blood circulating properly in the body and once the blood circulating, keeps the heart rate right.

00:27:10.641 --> 00:27:12.914
I did not have any issues with that.

00:27:12.914 --> 00:27:16.551
So that was the first time I used those things all the way through.

00:27:16.551 --> 00:27:20.009
So, yeah, I used them for a full 16 hour cycle.

00:27:20.009 --> 00:27:21.434
Is is what I got.

00:27:21.434 --> 00:27:25.451
I got out of two sets of batteries okay, two, is that two independent sets?

00:27:25.471 --> 00:27:28.057
so you had to charge one, charge it back up and go again.

00:27:28.057 --> 00:27:30.614
Do they give you an extra set of batteries on the set up the.

00:27:30.854 --> 00:27:35.152
The ones I bought came with one, one set of batteries, and then I bought an extra set.

00:27:35.152 --> 00:27:40.442
I probably could have went with a third set, uh, just to be super comfy, but oh no.

00:27:40.442 --> 00:27:48.983
So I had, I had my regular gloves on and then then I went into the heated gloves too and, yeah, hot hands as well.

00:27:49.530 --> 00:27:54.061
So I was covered all and you're just going all out I took them off and they were on fire.

00:27:54.182 --> 00:27:54.830
I was on fire.

00:27:54.990 --> 00:28:00.082
I felt like the that's a big challenge, though I know I have the same deal.

00:28:00.082 --> 00:28:07.981
It can be 40 degrees, it can be 45 degrees my hands go kind of purple and then they go white and I lose all feeling.

00:28:07.981 --> 00:28:11.098
It's a real thing and it's really difficult.

00:28:11.098 --> 00:28:12.314
Any kind of wind.

00:28:12.670 --> 00:28:15.778
Yeah, when you get into aid stations and you're trying to eat something and I'm like ooh.

00:28:20.869 --> 00:28:23.817
Yeah, you're trying to open a bottle, or yeah, trying to un like undo a gel or a or a packet of those fruit snacks or something.

00:28:23.877 --> 00:28:31.980
Is really difficult when your hands don't heat a glove, so quite uh under the radar, challenger I always heard david goggins talk about it and and I was like you know what?

00:28:32.019 --> 00:28:41.279
I need to get some of these things, I'm tired of messing around with this and I, richard, I bought those things and scott came in town four weeks before the race and we were going to do a.

00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.006
You know, I don't know what, scott, 40 miles or what.

00:28:45.006 --> 00:28:47.696
I think we did 40, 40 miles or whatever it was.

00:28:47.696 --> 00:28:48.778
Train and run.

00:28:48.778 --> 00:28:49.882
It was perfect.

00:28:49.882 --> 00:28:54.980
That's when I use the gloves the first time and I'm like I may be on something here, maybe on something.

00:28:55.170 --> 00:28:55.971
I like it Now.

00:28:55.971 --> 00:29:04.305
Earlier on, you guys talked about course markings too, and how those might have been improved, shall we say potentially, especially at night.

00:29:04.305 --> 00:29:06.136
What's the story behind that?

00:29:06.470 --> 00:29:07.695
We're no Magellans over here.

00:29:10.012 --> 00:29:17.361
No, I'm not very good with directions to start with, so I was kind of following Kurt's lead and I would have been lost in a second.

00:29:17.361 --> 00:29:18.413
But there were.

00:29:18.413 --> 00:29:18.936
You know it's nighttime.

00:29:18.936 --> 00:29:19.361
Um, but there were.

00:29:19.361 --> 00:29:22.273
You know it's nighttime, it's dark, you're under trees, it's really hard to see.

00:29:22.273 --> 00:29:44.939
There were a little contractor flags and we thought I felt like they could have had more more flags out, but definitely some type of reflective or reflection on the on the flags they were just little plain orange flags and they were just regular so yeah, and they were tucked so far down that there were so many leaves on the course it was really hard to see from flag to flag where to go.

00:29:45.390 --> 00:29:47.394
I think what got them, richard is.

00:29:48.076 --> 00:29:56.236
Originally, when they marked the course on Friday I think it was Thursday Friday is when they marked.

00:29:56.236 --> 00:30:04.257
It wasn't as windy that day because I think it was 14 mile an hour, winds, gust to 25.

00:30:04.257 --> 00:30:19.233
Now when you're in the forest you don't get it right, but there's sections that we're getting it and I think some of those sections their flags might have gotten spun Some of them did have and at nighttime is where it's important, right, because you've got your light and you're just looking for blazing.

00:30:19.233 --> 00:30:21.749
You're looking for, you know, for the reflective back.

00:30:21.749 --> 00:30:36.861
There was a section or so that there was a key place where I personally, if I was marking a course and I used to mark courses I would have said I'd have put a double reflective flag right there to make sure nobody missed that key turn.

00:30:36.861 --> 00:30:42.414
Scott and I did miss it and I think it didn't cost us too much time it probably five minutes.

00:30:42.414 --> 00:30:43.217
We doubled back.

00:30:43.217 --> 00:30:48.292
It was along a riverbank and when we got to the riverbank I was like whoa, this don't look familiar.

00:30:48.292 --> 00:30:49.586
I don't remember this at all.

00:30:50.288 --> 00:30:50.910
Not supposed to be.

00:30:50.950 --> 00:30:52.674
And then we doubled back and then I saw it.

00:30:52.674 --> 00:30:56.394
I'm like, oh yeah, I can see it playing perfectly from this side.

00:30:56.394 --> 00:31:06.617
But it's hard to be critical of a race director because it's so hard to mark those courses and have it maintain its integrity for the whole time.

00:31:06.617 --> 00:31:07.358
I mean things happen.

00:31:07.358 --> 00:31:10.612
I mean you could have had vermin or animals out there.

00:31:10.612 --> 00:31:11.192
Mess with them.

00:31:11.192 --> 00:31:12.496
Who knows, stuff happens.

00:31:12.496 --> 00:31:14.848
But I will say this Scott can get lost in a circle.

00:31:15.510 --> 00:31:16.914
Definitely In a circle.

00:31:17.765 --> 00:31:21.669
Well, I've got lost in a Walmart before, so I mean that shows my navigational skills.

00:31:21.669 --> 00:31:27.914
So, aside from your headlamp, challenges, shall we?

00:31:27.914 --> 00:31:35.781
Say, when you, when you sit down, you look back, is there anything, scott, you think you would do differently or change if you're going to, if you're going to run that race again?

00:31:39.884 --> 00:31:41.288
Hmm, how would you approach it differently next time, do you think?

00:31:41.288 --> 00:31:43.996
I think I would probably go back and wear long tights.

00:31:43.996 --> 00:31:48.315
I had shorts on and I was cold all night, I think.

00:31:48.375 --> 00:31:49.317
I would probably 22 degrees.

00:31:49.865 --> 00:32:04.911
I would probably even during the day, I wouldn't have taken them off, I'd have kept the long pants on, but I definitely wore long pants as opposed to shorts, because, like I said, on my top I had a compression, a hoodie, sweatshirt, a quarter zip jacket over it, so my top was covered.

00:32:04.911 --> 00:32:05.990
My legs were free to go.

00:32:05.990 --> 00:32:07.549
Yeah, my legs were cold.

00:32:07.549 --> 00:32:15.981
Yep, yeah, not that that would have helped the outcome or go any faster or anything like that, but as far as comfort, I changed my shoes each loop.

00:32:15.981 --> 00:32:17.489
You know, I changed the socks each loop.

00:32:17.489 --> 00:32:19.799
The pants were the only thing my legs were really cold.

00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.047
I think that's probably the only thing I would have changed.

00:32:22.106 --> 00:32:24.712
Yeah, yeah how, yeah, how about you, kurt, looking back?

00:32:24.712 --> 00:32:27.459
What do you think you'd do differently if you're going to run that race again?

00:32:28.547 --> 00:32:33.944
I think probably a lot of it in race was like Scott said, it was wardrobe stuff.

00:32:33.944 --> 00:32:36.233
I don't recall ever getting too cold.

00:32:36.233 --> 00:32:49.226
I probably at one point got overheated because I had on too much too much.

00:32:49.226 --> 00:32:52.980
I think I would have taken my time more at the riverbed crossings and maybe invested a little more time to find a way to round to not get my feet wet.

00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:57.092
Did you see others doing that Like was everybody just plowing through the crossing?

00:32:57.092 --> 00:32:59.436
Or did you see other people you know?

00:32:59.924 --> 00:33:01.729
All right, Richard, you asked so here, we go.

00:33:01.729 --> 00:33:03.373
So our buddy jeremy.

00:33:03.373 --> 00:33:08.614
Our buddy jeremy swore if he was on here right now he'd swear up and down.

00:33:08.614 --> 00:33:12.164
He told us so he was one of our pacers.

00:33:12.164 --> 00:33:16.834
We got to this last crossing for scott and I.

00:33:16.834 --> 00:33:18.096
We see no way around this.

00:33:18.237 --> 00:33:25.246
We see water and it's up to knee height, so I'm just like we're just going through it's because we're old, we're not going to try and find shortcuts, we're just going through, just straight.

00:33:25.246 --> 00:33:25.730
We're just going through.

00:33:25.730 --> 00:33:26.684
It's because we're old, we're not going to try and find shortcuts.

00:33:26.655 --> 00:33:27.250
We're just going through.

00:33:27.221 --> 00:33:29.438
Straight through we're sitting here and Jeremy's behind us.

00:33:29.438 --> 00:33:32.633
Scott and I get to the water and Jeremy's like y'all stay there.

00:33:32.633 --> 00:33:33.375
I want to get your picture.

00:33:33.375 --> 00:33:35.028
You know I want to film it.

00:33:35.028 --> 00:33:51.894
I was like, okay, Next thing I see is Jeremy flying across the side over here and he hops out like a bunny bunny rabbit on the other side of the trail and I'm like where did you go?

00:33:51.894 --> 00:34:00.068
He goes, I told you guys to go left and I'm like, huh, so yeah, Besides that, it's funny when you don't know a trail and you do it for the first time, you don't know what you don't know.

00:34:00.909 --> 00:34:18.974
So I think if I were to do that course again, I would probably would have said, hey, I would have wished we'd had more time to look for ways to get around some of these nuisance water crossings, Just because I know how important it is to keep your feet dry.

00:34:18.974 --> 00:34:20.349
Then you know, you know the deal.

00:34:20.349 --> 00:34:28.418
The longer you keep those feet dry, the further down the road you get before you have issues with blisters and what have you yeah, sometimes it's unavoidable.

00:34:28.478 --> 00:34:31.208
But if it isn't unavoidable, if it.

00:34:31.208 --> 00:34:34.114
If it is voidable, that's not even a term.

00:34:34.114 --> 00:34:38.733
But yes, if you can get around it, that would be a great thing to know in advance right now.

00:34:39.175 --> 00:34:41.161
Ask now, ask scott, this question.

00:34:41.161 --> 00:34:45.335
Scott, what would you do differently leading up to the race?

00:34:47.708 --> 00:34:50.976
My training block for this race was not on par.

00:34:50.976 --> 00:34:53.914
I hate running in the cold.

00:34:53.914 --> 00:35:00.514
It's so easy when an alarm goes off at 5 o'clock in the morning to say here goes six miles on the treadmill, I'm not going outside.

00:35:00.514 --> 00:35:11.373
So my training block I started later than I wanted to and mileage wise was nowhere near where I was for the wildcat ultra, which was this previous september.

00:35:11.373 --> 00:35:17.181
But with that being said, I finished the race and I thought I did pretty well look and and richard.

00:35:17.201 --> 00:35:18.224
This is where I brought.

00:35:18.224 --> 00:35:23.074
I wanted to bring this up for a reason because this is yeah.

00:35:23.074 --> 00:35:27.753
So, as two people who are going to run together, you want to make sure you're matching up right.

00:35:27.753 --> 00:35:33.498
You don't want to feel like, hey, I'm letting him down or he's letting me down.

00:35:33.498 --> 00:35:34.951
You want to make sure you match up.

00:35:34.951 --> 00:35:36.170
You're pretty doggone close.

00:35:37.344 --> 00:35:47.952
I saw Scott not training, and even Jeremy and I would talk back and forth and he goes, well, he goes, you're going to, he's talking to me, he's like you're going to do fine, he goes, you have.

00:35:47.952 --> 00:35:51.275
You have more than put in the time, the mileage, he goes.

00:35:51.275 --> 00:35:54.385
It's going to be a tough race, but you're going to get through it, don't worry.

00:35:54.385 --> 00:35:54.846
Scott.

00:35:54.846 --> 00:35:56.405
On the other hand, I'm not so sure.

00:35:56.405 --> 00:36:06.371
So doubt laid into my mind that my partner might struggle and I need him right, I know that, I know it.

00:36:06.371 --> 00:36:18.416
So, wow, to my surprise, and I'll let him tell you he, at the middle of the let's see, we finished the first loop, starting the second loop, so started on the second loop.

00:36:18.416 --> 00:36:25.119
Right towards the end, right in the middle of that second loop, you pick up our pacer starting the third loop.

00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:26.880
When they started that loop.

00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:27.661
I couldn't keep up.

00:36:27.661 --> 00:36:28.981
I couldn't keep up with Scott.

00:36:28.981 --> 00:36:38.231
He found magic in a pair of copper knee sleeves and he took off and I couldn't keep up with him.

00:36:38.231 --> 00:36:43.911
And let me tell you, for a while there I felt like dude, just go, you found something, just go.

00:36:43.911 --> 00:36:44.855
I'm going to finish.

00:36:44.855 --> 00:36:47.065
Dude, just go.

00:36:47.065 --> 00:36:48.070
You, you found something, just go, I'm gonna finish.

00:36:48.070 --> 00:36:48.331
But that was.

00:36:48.331 --> 00:36:56.795
I think that's the true testament back and forth here, how we have already made the commitment when we do these things let's stay together, because we know it's not always going to be everybody's on the same page.

00:36:56.795 --> 00:36:59.590
At some point one will struggle, one won't.

00:36:59.789 --> 00:37:14.820
And I struggled towards the end and he helped out a lot and when he didn't have to stay behind yeah, and that's kind of what I was talking about with the whole ebb and flow, because that those kind of situations come up a lot when you're running with somebody, whether you start with them or you pick up and running with somebody during the race.

00:37:14.820 --> 00:37:24.467
There's lots of times when you know one is ahead of the other and you might just be like, yeah, you know what, you just go, I'm not feeling great, Just just go on like yeah, you know what?

00:37:24.487 --> 00:37:24.867
you just go.

00:37:24.867 --> 00:37:25.891
I'm not feeling great, just just go on.

00:37:25.891 --> 00:37:35.987
So I think it's really cool that you guys made a commitment to stay together and started and finished together, which I, which I think is really cool, and we got a second gear tip there the copper knee braces thrown in.

00:37:35.987 --> 00:37:39.594
So we've got two gear tips coming out of this right here, right, right, right.

00:37:39.996 --> 00:37:58.516
well, kurt, I kurt, I appreciate you saying that and and look, there was no way that I was going to leave, even if you'd have said leave, we were in that till the end together and you know how it's hard to describe, but sometimes you know you let yourself down in the training or you know you let yourself down in this aspect of whatever you're doing.

00:37:58.516 --> 00:38:00.932
Well, I let myself down and I knew I did.

00:38:00.932 --> 00:38:06.139
And even going into that race the weekend, I had no doubt in my head that I was going to finish that race.

00:38:06.139 --> 00:38:11.170
Even with the lack of training, there was something, there was something on the inside that that was lit.

00:38:11.170 --> 00:38:15.318
Or, you know, some people will say the demons in your head, or whatever you want to call it.

00:38:15.318 --> 00:38:17.688
I wasn't leaving without finishing that race.

00:38:17.688 --> 00:38:24.320
And even though my training for that, for that particular race, was subpar in my head, I knew I was going to finish.

00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:26.528
That particular race was subpar in my head, I knew I was going to finish.

00:38:26.548 --> 00:38:27.309
I could visualize seeing myself finish.

00:38:27.309 --> 00:38:36.090
Yeah, that's interesting too, because I can't tell you how many people will come and say, okay, I've run this amount of distance in training or I've done this amount of miles per week, is that enough to finish?

00:38:36.090 --> 00:38:38.416
Is that enough to finish 50 mile or 100 mile?

00:38:38.416 --> 00:38:44.478
And the answer is always roughly the same, is that it's mostly mental.

00:38:44.478 --> 00:38:47.686
You can have a really good shot with almost no training, correct?

00:38:47.686 --> 00:38:50.233
You could do a 50k with no training if that's what you want to do.

00:38:51.155 --> 00:39:02.893
But I think that's the proof right there, scott, is that you know, okay, it's good to have training, but the mental side of things is really what's going to get you through and get you over the finish line ultimately.

00:39:02.893 --> 00:39:10.795
Because I think nobody's really able to train specifically for mile 65, mile 70 of 100 mile race.

00:39:10.795 --> 00:39:13.869
You just don't know what's going to happen when you hit that point.

00:39:13.869 --> 00:39:26.155
So, yeah, I think that's really fascinating that, despite a less than ideal build-up, shall we say, that you were able to get through and beat the cutoff, and 31 hours is pretty good.

00:39:26.155 --> 00:39:27.556
Whichever way you look at it.

00:39:27.617 --> 00:39:28.478
It's a long time.

00:39:28.759 --> 00:39:30.300
Put it down to mental it is.

00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:40.496
It is a long time to be out there, but that just increases exponentially the mental aspect of things, right, because it starts getting to you and getting to you the more you're out there.

00:39:40.496 --> 00:39:42.648
So kudos to you guys, you know, yep.

00:39:42.648 --> 00:39:45.072
Now you've mentioned Jeremy a few times.

00:39:45.072 --> 00:39:47.135
I'm sure he'll be glad for that.

00:39:47.815 --> 00:39:48.998
I think you had a crew, right?

00:39:48.998 --> 00:39:50.280
Was Jeremy a part of the crew?

00:39:50.280 --> 00:40:00.831
So if you did have a crew, how did the crew come about and what was their role in you guys actually getting to finish oh wow, so this is all Scott's story.

00:40:02.047 --> 00:40:03.474
It's the Scott crew story.

00:40:05.947 --> 00:40:06.869
I'll let him take it away.

00:40:06.869 --> 00:40:07.652
All right, go Scott.

00:40:07.652 --> 00:40:13.387
Only good stuff for sure.

00:40:13.387 --> 00:40:16.302
So when we started talking about doing this race, jeremy had mentioned he was going to be at this race and was manning an aid station.

00:40:16.302 --> 00:40:18.889
He's like y'all come on, I'll pace y'all, we'll cook for you.

00:40:18.889 --> 00:40:31.833
So him and his girlfriend Kelly, both were at the tent and I'm telling you, every time we finished a loop we were texting them a couple of miles out hey, we'll be there in two miles, three miles, whatever it was.

00:40:31.833 --> 00:40:38.018
They would have hot dogs ready for us, pancakes, bacon, hamburgers, anything we needed.

00:40:38.018 --> 00:40:38.659
They were there.

00:40:38.659 --> 00:40:46.565
They were taking our shoes off, rubbing lotion or icy hot on our calves, our calves, fixing blisters, putting socks on us.

00:40:46.565 --> 00:40:48.369
They were there for everything we needed.

00:40:48.369 --> 00:40:51.217
We couldn't have asked for a better crew on the course.

00:40:51.257 --> 00:40:54.911
The pacing part I kind of feel like it was all over the place.

00:40:54.911 --> 00:40:57.177
Jeremy is a ball of energy.

00:40:57.177 --> 00:41:03.773
He has he has two gears, he has a stop and a go, 400 and he was was.

00:41:03.773 --> 00:41:09.268
He was at 400% that day, which was great because he kept us going and he kept us motivated.

00:41:09.268 --> 00:41:12.617
But you're also, you know, you're also exhausted.

00:41:12.617 --> 00:41:20.130
You're in your own head, you're struggling a bit and Jeremy is like whizzing by you and screaming stuff out, and sometimes it's overwhelming For me.

00:41:20.130 --> 00:41:28.914
Anyway, I don't know about anybody else For me it gets overwhelming for a little bit and then on the I guess it was the last loop kelly actually hurt herself.

00:41:28.914 --> 00:41:30.097
She actually twisted her ankle.

00:41:30.097 --> 00:41:31.226
She was pacing this as well.

00:41:31.226 --> 00:41:38.054
So our pacer, jeremy, stayed back with kelly intended to her until they got her, you know, taken care of into the aid station.

00:41:38.054 --> 00:41:44.793
So we were a good what would you say, 10 miles, seven miles ahead of our pacer for a bit About five miles yeah.

00:41:44.833 --> 00:41:45.032
Yeah.

00:41:45.574 --> 00:41:45.875
Yeah.

00:41:46.456 --> 00:41:49.108
Yeah, but we, you know they did, they did a great job.

00:41:49.108 --> 00:41:51.014
I'm sorry that Kelly hurt her ankle.

00:41:51.014 --> 00:41:54.407
I felt so bad for her cause she was out there to help us and she wound up hurting herself.

00:41:54.467 --> 00:42:10.110
But I mean, they were there, they were our crew and they helped get us to the end, for sure, nothing better to have crew who, who does these and knows what it, knows what it takes to finish, knows what it takes to finish them.

00:42:10.110 --> 00:42:19.092
Oh yeah, I think they can anticipate what you may not be able to brain and comprehend what you may need and that was big from them too.

00:42:19.092 --> 00:42:26.070
Yep, being out on the course and having somebody put the time and say, hey, this is, this is where we are, this is where you need to be.

00:42:26.070 --> 00:42:26.891
That's always helpful.

00:42:26.891 --> 00:42:28.914
You know, richard, you've done these things enough.

00:42:29.675 --> 00:42:37.628
You lose your mental acuity and you just get to the point where I just got to go and where it helped the most and, believe it or not, it was kind of weird.

00:42:37.628 --> 00:42:39.269
Where they helped the most is when I fell.

00:42:39.269 --> 00:42:41.972
They weren't with us at all At that point.

00:42:41.972 --> 00:42:55.614
That's when Scott and I were ahead of us, and so it was a comedy show if you'd have been out there Because, like I said, we went through the dynamics here of our differences 210, dead weight in a riverbed, 140 pounds I'm going to pick you up.

00:42:55.614 --> 00:43:04.934
So we know we're killing time right and we know the aid had had cutoffs, richard.

00:43:04.954 --> 00:43:05.896
So it wasn't just you.

00:43:05.896 --> 00:43:09.039
You do have to hit certain stations at a certain time to continue on.

00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:14.056
So we got to a point we're sitting there and then Jeremy showed back up.

00:43:14.056 --> 00:43:17.956
And when he showed back up I was like I think we're about to be in time trouble.

00:43:17.956 --> 00:43:19.829
And sure enough, jeremy was.

00:43:19.829 --> 00:43:24.592
Jeremy helped me out out of the, out of the riverbed, and that's when things got real serious.

00:43:24.592 --> 00:43:38.349
On time, they were, I think, at that point, even though all of the stuff leading up to that that was the part there where they got us back Well, me, scott was along for the ride at that point for the show, for the comedy show Got us back on track.

00:43:38.965 --> 00:43:42.456
You know, hey, kurt, you don't have time to stop at this aid station.

00:43:42.456 --> 00:43:44.485
I'm going to grab some stuff for you.

00:43:44.485 --> 00:43:47.369
Hopefully I get what you need, but you don't have time to stop.

00:43:47.369 --> 00:43:48.250
We've got to keep running.

00:43:48.250 --> 00:43:49.771
You actually have to run now.

00:43:49.771 --> 00:43:51.132
Figure out how to run.

00:43:51.132 --> 00:43:52.853
That was good to have them.

00:43:52.853 --> 00:43:54.514
Now, how did that happen?

00:43:54.514 --> 00:44:01.661
I was hoping he was going to go into the whole story on Jeremy and how they met and how that all went down.

00:44:01.661 --> 00:44:03.306
Scott and I signed up.

00:44:03.306 --> 00:44:06.777
I don't know, this was probably two years ago, I think it was in 2022.

00:44:06.777 --> 00:44:08.590
Scott came in town.

00:44:08.590 --> 00:44:10.231
It was that same race that I did the 100 at.

00:44:10.231 --> 00:44:17.976
We were just I've done every distance out there, but I hadn't done the 50K, so I had a goal time out there six hours or less and I hit my goal time.

00:44:17.976 --> 00:44:24.570
But Scott met Jeremy at that race and Jeremy was doing the hundred miler out there.

00:44:24.570 --> 00:44:27.572
And so I think, scott, how far did you run with Jeremy?

00:44:28.391 --> 00:44:30.153
We did probably 16 miles.

00:44:30.153 --> 00:44:32.094
We did lovely there 16 miles, Richard.

00:44:32.474 --> 00:44:33.596
So he met this guy.

00:44:33.596 --> 00:44:34.436
For what?

00:44:34.436 --> 00:44:38.039
Two hours, three hours, three hours, Richard, he meets him.

00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:41.902
Next thing I know for Wildcat this dude's come and stay at his house.

00:44:41.902 --> 00:44:47.487
He's never met him before, except for a three hour race on a on a trail.

00:44:47.487 --> 00:44:48.510
I'm like this dude's come and stay at his house.

00:44:48.510 --> 00:44:50.353
He's never met him before, except for a three-hour race on a on a trail.

00:44:50.373 --> 00:44:51.376
I'm like this dude could be an axe murderer.

00:44:51.376 --> 00:45:11.440
Yeah, that's always been one of the amazing things about racing trail racing, ultra racing it's such a tight-knit community and I've said I've said like you can spend a couple of hours with somebody on a trail and get to know them in a way that you would never get to know them if you were just going to meet them out in a park or somewhere else.

00:45:11.440 --> 00:45:40.880
Like people's walls come down really quickly when, when, with all the really close bonds with people you may only spend a few hours with and I know I have the same experience with people I meet but I think that's really interesting, a really fun part of trail running.

00:45:41.266 --> 00:45:43.411
I think you get so vulnerable out there.

00:45:43.411 --> 00:45:53.474
You have nothing, you can't hide anything at that point You're an open book and who you are is who you're going to be, because you don't have any emotion, you don't have any place to hide it.

00:45:53.474 --> 00:45:56.894
So you're very vulnerable and you get to know somebody in that short amount of time.

00:45:56.894 --> 00:46:01.697
Jeremy happened to go to the same high school I did.

00:46:01.697 --> 00:46:07.237
He grew up in the same town I did, so there was a little bit of a connection there that kind of built some trust.

00:46:07.237 --> 00:46:10.295
You know, we kind of knew the same roots or grew up in the same roots.

00:46:10.295 --> 00:46:17.534
So yeah, three hours being vulnerable on the course, you really get to know somebody and I've built a few friendships on the course like that.

00:46:18.246 --> 00:46:24.012
Yeah, the emotional side of running and I've talked about this a little bit on the podcast previously.

00:46:24.012 --> 00:46:28.998
But nobody really prepares you, I don't think, for the emotional side of these races.

00:46:28.998 --> 00:46:38.025
When you get north of 100 miles you can do all the physical training and you can do all the logistical stuff up front, but it's a proper roller coaster out there.

00:46:38.025 --> 00:46:40.028
But yeah, it gets like.

00:46:40.028 --> 00:46:48.940
I was my last race, I think the day three of the 200 race I was doing I was just crying was my last race, I think the day three of the 200 race I was doing.

00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:55.277
I was just crying for no reason whatsoever, and it's not just anything anyone said to me, I would just be bawling for some reason and I had no control over it.

00:46:55.277 --> 00:47:02.777
But just yeah, the emotional side of things is something people don't really talk about too much, but it's there on every one of these races and it'll get you.

00:47:02.777 --> 00:47:06.586
But I do think you're right there on every one of these races and it'll get you.

00:47:06.586 --> 00:47:07.228
But I do think you're right.

00:47:07.228 --> 00:47:12.487
That has a part to play in everybody being very open and genuine, because you get the real person there on the trail right.

00:47:12.487 --> 00:47:19.813
There's no hiding anything when you're 60, 70 miles into a race and freezing cold and your feet are wet.

00:47:20.155 --> 00:47:22.541
There's no hiding anything when you're at that point.

00:47:22.541 --> 00:47:41.838
So we talked about recovery a little bit out of the gate at the beginning of the episode here and I hope you don't mind, but I'm right there too as 50 plus runners, I was curious how you guys approach recovery after a big old event like this 100 miles.

00:47:41.838 --> 00:47:43.170
What do you do afterwards?

00:47:43.170 --> 00:47:44.565
Is it active recovery?

00:47:44.565 --> 00:47:46.086
Kurt, you want to start what?

00:47:46.126 --> 00:47:46.666
do you do afterwards?

00:47:46.666 --> 00:47:47.947
Is it active recovery, kurt, you want to start?

00:47:47.947 --> 00:47:48.527
How do you approach that?

00:47:48.527 --> 00:47:50.989
I'm going to tell you it's active when you can be.

00:47:51.269 --> 00:48:04.077
I think probably didn't do anything, richard, for probably a week after this race, and I mean, at some point sometimes it's just a struggle get out of bed and walk to the shower, et cetera.

00:48:04.077 --> 00:48:14.922
But you know, once you get that lactic acid flushed out and you start to feel a little bit rickety, as you are, that's when I get propped up.

00:48:14.922 --> 00:48:29.510
And when I mean propped up, if I'm going to go out and try to go do something.

00:48:29.510 --> 00:48:34.302
Part of that recovery is to be smart and maybe now, going forward, I'm going to start wearing the knee braces deeper into a race just because it protects the form of the joint.

00:48:34.302 --> 00:48:48.670
But yeah, I think I was in knee sleeves, knee braces, ankle sleeves, braces, whatever you want to call them compression things, probably for the first four weeks while I was doing any kind of running, just just to be on the safe side.

00:48:48.670 --> 00:48:51.456
I did continuously do.

00:48:51.516 --> 00:48:55.811
I've got one of those thumper, uh Thera thumper things, and I was always.

00:48:55.811 --> 00:49:03.853
I was making sure I was uh hitting, you know, hitting the hot spots daily and and and stretching as much as I can.

00:49:03.853 --> 00:49:21.951
I'm not very flexible at all, but just trying to do some stretching and then just body position strengthening, meaning squat positions, anything that builds those muscles back up.

00:49:21.951 --> 00:49:24.376
The hip flexors I do incorporate.

00:49:24.376 --> 00:49:32.166
I used to play a lot of golf, so I'll get my long stick, my long weighted sticks, out and I do hip exercises to keep the hip flexors flexible.

00:49:32.166 --> 00:49:34.813
I think that's a big part, especially as we get older.

00:49:34.813 --> 00:49:40.824
Got to be fluid down there, especially when you're running terrain that's rough to you know, to make sure you can bob and weave.

00:49:40.824 --> 00:49:45.215
So I try to just keep everything fluid, but I'm careful and smart.

00:49:45.215 --> 00:49:49.559
Like I said, the knee braces just came off, probably two weeks ago I think that's good stuff.

00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:54.739
The joints, especially the hip flexors and well, hip joints for me are a big problem too.

00:49:54.739 --> 00:49:57.851
Just after all the pounding, it's no good these days.

00:49:57.851 --> 00:49:58.873
How about you, scott?

00:49:59.135 --> 00:50:00.961
I'm uh kind of kind of the same as kurt.

00:50:00.961 --> 00:50:09.527
I uh I usually take for sure a couple of days off, maybe that third day if I'm able to walk on the treadmill, I'll walk really slow, just depends on what kind of shape the body is in.

00:50:09.527 --> 00:50:16.989
I'm a big believer in rehab tools so, like Kurt said, the massage gun, the foam rollers rolling.

00:50:16.989 --> 00:50:24.291
I also have a pair of those compression boots, the ones that zip up, and it's like a kind of a blood pressure cuff all up and down your leg.

00:50:24.291 --> 00:50:24.853
It kind of does.

00:50:24.853 --> 00:50:26.677
A huge believer in those.

00:50:26.677 --> 00:50:30.195
I do those usually once a day right after the race.

00:50:30.195 --> 00:50:31.389
I try to do it twice a day.

00:50:31.389 --> 00:50:35.335
I think getting that blood flowing in there helps to get some of that lactic acid out.

00:50:35.335 --> 00:50:45.239
But, like Kurt said, just trying to move and as hard as it is and as sore as you are, just trying to keep the blood flowing through the legs, and that's any kind of movement, walking down the block, the treadmill.

00:50:45.945 --> 00:50:50.032
After this, this red dirt, I did have some knee pain, so I was out a little bit longer than I wanted to.

00:50:50.032 --> 00:50:55.215
Once I was able to get back on the treadmill, I still had a little bit of knee pain, just kind of walk through that.

00:50:55.215 --> 00:50:56.990
And, and you know, colonel vouched for it.

00:50:56.990 --> 00:51:07.378
I texted him and Jeremy, april or I guess the the end of March and I said it doesn't matter how bad it hurts, april 1st I'm on the road and it's been two weeks and the knee pain is actually gone now.

00:51:07.378 --> 00:51:13.496
So I don't know if getting on the road, getting active again, has worked all that lactic acid out, but it actually feels good now.

00:51:13.596 --> 00:51:17.992
So yeah, yeah, yeah, motion is lotion.

00:51:17.992 --> 00:51:25.141
Get out there, and it doesn't matter if it's fast or slow, just get it moving and get the blood flow you know, the older we get, we're all right around the same age.

00:51:25.181 --> 00:51:25.880
I'm 51.

00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:30.001
It seems like you could wake up after a great night of sleep and something aches.

00:51:30.001 --> 00:51:35.347
You don't know how it was, you don't know what happened, but so every every morning I wake up, or every night I go to bed.

00:51:35.347 --> 00:51:38.076
It's like all right, what's tomorrow gonna feel like at 5 am, you know?

00:51:38.425 --> 00:51:39.786
yes, I don't know that.

00:51:39.786 --> 00:51:49.862
Uh, and that's really why I asked, because I'm kind of right around 50 and I'm like dude, this is way different than when I was 30, 35 running, or 20 years running and just bounce back out again.

00:51:49.862 --> 00:51:59.018
Yeah, it's really different and I have to be really mindful of what I'm doing before, during and after a race, because it's very different.

00:51:59.018 --> 00:52:00.559
It's a very different Pay attention.

00:52:01.626 --> 00:52:14.809
Maybe I'll do a specific episode on 50 plus runners and strategies and techniques for for staying flexible, yep and kind of build up and post races, because that might be interesting too, some of those sumo squats underserved.

00:52:14.809 --> 00:52:24.175
Yeah, I tell you, man, if I could do a bunch of those right, that opens those hip flexors up really good, though, that's for sure.

00:52:24.175 --> 00:52:32.746
I yeah, I thought so like I have to hold on to something, it's all right with cheating cheating's fine yes, it is a little cheating.

00:52:32.766 --> 00:52:34.432
Uh, I have to say so.

00:52:34.432 --> 00:52:43.454
The, the listener base for choose to endure, is predominantly back of the pack folks, or the tail end of the of the ultra world.

00:52:43.454 --> 00:52:59.436
Now do you guys have any advice for those folks, especially in sort of preparing for and tackling ultra distances in general, or specifically for stepping up to like 100, like you guys just did, if they are sort of on the fence about wanting to give it a try?

00:52:59.905 --> 00:53:07.172
I hear a lot of people, you know a lot of people at the gym I talk to, or I mean just around town as I'm running and they're walking past or whatever they're like.

00:53:07.172 --> 00:53:09.226
There's no way I could do a long run like that.

00:53:09.226 --> 00:53:09.947
There's no way.

00:53:09.947 --> 00:53:14.065
They've already lost the battle, they've already got it in their heads and they can't do it.

00:53:14.065 --> 00:53:19.474
And and what I feel like, what we do, there's no magic to it.

00:53:19.474 --> 00:53:20.876
I'm not fast, kurt.

00:53:20.876 --> 00:53:22.057
You know kurt's not fast.

00:53:22.057 --> 00:53:22.858
Jeremy is fast.

00:53:22.858 --> 00:53:24.842
We're not not fast.

00:53:24.842 --> 00:53:26.684
We'll walk a little bit, we'll run a little bit.

00:53:26.684 --> 00:53:28.070
We'll walk a little bit, we'll run a little bit.

00:53:28.070 --> 00:53:32.050
But we have it down to a science, to where we know when the timer clicks, it's time to run.

00:53:32.050 --> 00:53:34.105
When the timer clicks again, we're going to walk for a bit.

00:53:34.105 --> 00:53:35.626
Anybody can do that.

00:53:35.686 --> 00:53:36.447
Start small.

00:53:36.447 --> 00:53:45.097
So start with a 5K, finish the 5K and stay at that distance for a few months and you know, then you get the urge, you get motivated.

00:53:45.097 --> 00:53:46.478
You're like man, that 5k felt great.

00:53:46.478 --> 00:53:47.599
Let me sign up for a 10k.

00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:49.927
Just keep, you know, keep the momentum going.

00:53:49.927 --> 00:53:53.967
Don't tell yourself you can't do it, because you know, trust me, if I can do it, anybody can do it.

00:53:53.967 --> 00:53:55.447
But just stick with it.

00:53:55.447 --> 00:53:57.090
You know a hundred miles is far.

00:53:57.090 --> 00:54:00.655
You don't have to start with a hundred miles method Walk two minutes and run five minutes.

00:54:00.655 --> 00:54:10.755
There's all kinds of increments you can do and they're all going to get you to the same finish line Cut, how about you?

00:54:12.469 --> 00:54:13.992
Well, we're asked this all the time.

00:54:13.992 --> 00:54:27.697
I do, people at work and stuff ask all the time and my answer is always the same you can't do it unless you have a strong why you want to do it.

00:54:27.697 --> 00:54:34.456
So I always tell people it's a physical race till about mile 30.

00:54:34.456 --> 00:54:36.278
Then after that it's mental.

00:54:36.278 --> 00:54:45.632
So these folks who run half marathons and stuff like that, they always tell me, oh, I couldn't do any of that stuff and I said, well, you just haven't found a strong enough why that you want to do it.

00:54:45.632 --> 00:54:47.195
That's always been my thing.

00:54:47.195 --> 00:55:08.021
I started doing triathlons and marathons and all that and I did a full Ironman and when I got into doing this, I made attempts and those attempts were fails right, and I don't look at a fail as just a oh my gosh, you failed, you're so bad, don't do it again.

00:55:08.021 --> 00:55:09.851
We learn from every failure.

00:55:09.851 --> 00:55:13.456
I think I learn a lot of stuff every time I do fail.

00:55:13.456 --> 00:55:20.206
So one of the things I tell people is go out and fail, go out.

00:55:20.206 --> 00:55:23.797
And oh, kurt, I can't run 12, 13 miles.

00:55:23.797 --> 00:55:27.755
Go out and go, try to run 15 and fail trying to do it.

00:55:27.755 --> 00:55:29.510
You'll get better from it.

00:55:29.510 --> 00:55:37.079
If you want to do something like this, then there is more than enough people that will rally around you and help you.

00:55:37.824 --> 00:55:50.474
Case in point this last race, scott and I caught up with this guy His name is Rylan and Rylan is a veteran and he was injured in battle.

00:55:50.474 --> 00:55:56.577
Guy jumped out of a helicopter, lost his lead rope and fell down about eight feet flat on his back.

00:55:56.577 --> 00:55:57.646
I think.

00:55:57.646 --> 00:56:00.795
He told us he had like 12 bad discs or something like that.

00:56:00.795 --> 00:56:04.019
But this guy was out there doing the 50K and you know we tell him a little bit about ourselves and that we do.

00:56:04.019 --> 00:56:09.532
He was, he was out there doing the 50 K and uh, you know we tell them a little bit about, about, uh, ourselves, and that we do these things together this, that and the other.

00:56:09.532 --> 00:56:11.215
And uh, he was just he.

00:56:11.215 --> 00:56:13.050
He was, he was enamored by it and we.

00:56:14.985 --> 00:56:33.333
He reached out and about doing Wildcat and said, hey, look, this race Wildcat.

00:56:33.333 --> 00:56:36.748
It's a two and a half mile loop, you know, and you do it 40 times.

00:56:36.748 --> 00:56:39.976
Okay, everything is right there for you.

00:56:39.976 --> 00:56:42.489
You're not going to be far from people ever.

00:56:42.489 --> 00:56:45.661
You're going to have people with you the whole way.

00:56:45.661 --> 00:56:47.827
I'm like heck, I'm doing it, scott's doing it.

00:56:47.827 --> 00:56:49.088
You were going to be out there.

00:56:49.088 --> 00:56:50.492
He signed up for it.

00:56:50.492 --> 00:56:59.514
The guy's why is beyond measure Just going through his Facebook stuff, his life, that he's going through.

00:56:59.514 --> 00:57:05.934
The dude's got some whys so I know if he can overcome that physical piece of it.

00:57:05.934 --> 00:57:10.112
The dude's mentally strong, so for him it's a little different.

00:57:10.112 --> 00:57:18.608
So he was just like looking for somebody to say can you, can you carry me along or pull me along on the physical?

00:57:18.608 --> 00:57:21.815
I've already got the mental that person's there.

00:57:21.815 --> 00:57:27.003
The other one that's hard to get around is the guy who thinks they have the physical but they didn't have all the why.

00:57:27.003 --> 00:57:28.449
That was me last year.

00:57:28.449 --> 00:57:29.512
That was me last year.

00:57:29.552 --> 00:57:34.047
That wildcat race yeah, the mental side of it is so important, like we were talking about earlier.

00:57:34.047 --> 00:57:38.155
Like you can have all the physical tools, you can be a super fast, fast guy.

00:57:38.155 --> 00:57:45.481
But you know you, you don't know you until you get past 35, 40 miles and you find out really find out right

00:57:45.541 --> 00:57:49.132
what, what I yeah who I'm at so fantastic.

00:57:49.132 --> 00:57:49.873
Yeah, I think too.

00:57:49.873 --> 00:58:05.929
You know, when people, when I talk to people and I'm like, yeah, I'm doing 100 mile or 50 mile or 200iler, I think in their head they equate that with kind of like a half-marathon pace, and that I'm out there doing this half-marathon pace for 100 miles and I go, I could never do that.

00:58:05.929 --> 00:58:06.893
And I'm like well, me, neither.

00:58:07.690 --> 00:58:08.385
I didn't do that either.

00:58:08.867 --> 00:58:22.070
There's a whole lot of walking involved and I stopped to eat and I I drink a beer every 50 miles.

00:58:22.070 --> 00:58:22.972
So, like you know what, what do you want to do?

00:58:22.992 --> 00:58:28.110
so, yeah, I think people immediately close, close their mind to the concept that people do this kind of thing and it's okay to walk, and so a lot of people think you have to run the whole way you're running the whole way.

00:58:28.110 --> 00:58:29.846
It's okay to walk, it's no shame in that?

00:58:29.925 --> 00:58:31.528
no, no, not at all.

00:58:31.528 --> 00:58:35.695
It's encouraged actually, actually, especially when you get out on the hillier sections.

00:58:35.695 --> 00:58:39.248
Definitely encouraged Do what you got to do, aren't they all hilly?

00:58:39.289 --> 00:58:41.894
Same finish line for everybody, aren't they all hilly?

00:58:42.014 --> 00:58:42.858
Yeah, I love that.

00:58:42.858 --> 00:58:48.014
Some of them, yeah, no, most of them actually yes.

00:58:48.014 --> 00:58:50.369
So to the big question of the episode.

00:58:50.369 --> 00:59:01.737
Thinking back on Red Dirt is that a race that you guys would recommend to other back of the packers out there and if so, or even if not, why?

00:59:02.199 --> 00:59:04.242
well, I think so I'll start with.

00:59:04.403 --> 00:59:05.646
I'll start with this, kurt.

00:59:05.646 --> 00:59:11.385
Unfortunately this was the last year for the 100 miler at that race, so that's not an option.

00:59:11.385 --> 00:59:13.951
Oh man, they're only going to do the 50k and the 50 miler.

00:59:13.951 --> 00:59:17.157
My, my thought that was a tough course.

00:59:17.157 --> 00:59:21.065
That was a tough, tough course, more more tough, tougher than I expected.

00:59:21.065 --> 00:59:23.030
For sure I think I underestimated that course.

00:59:23.030 --> 00:59:25.356
I don't know that I would go back and do it.

00:59:25.356 --> 00:59:28.853
Maybe the 50k I would encourage someone to go do.

00:59:28.853 --> 00:59:36.505
But 100 mile on that course for a back of the packer is kind of tough, that's that's my thought so yeah, no fair.

00:59:36.606 --> 00:59:37.467
Yeah, that's why we ask.

00:59:37.467 --> 00:59:41.737
I mean, part of this is to get get stuff out there for other folks.

00:59:41.818 --> 00:59:50.500
I I echo, I I echo that it was definitely more technical than I thought it was going to be.

00:59:50.500 --> 00:59:55.496
There was never really too many spots, richard, where you could just zone out and go.

00:59:55.496 --> 01:00:02.639
You always had to be thinking, looking, making sure you weren't stepping in a rut on a route.

01:00:02.639 --> 01:00:17.500
It was hands on the knees for some of it, going uphill, and then it was for me you can bleep this out my oh shits on the way down the hills when my quads are killing me every step down.

01:00:17.500 --> 01:00:23.157
Now would I go back out there just to do a 50K?

01:00:23.157 --> 01:00:29.556
Probably so, knowing that the end is coming sooner, knowing you only got to go through it once.

01:00:29.556 --> 01:00:32.485
It's gorgeous up there, richard.

01:00:33.246 --> 01:00:49.097
One of the things I love about Ultra is and Jeremy went and did a race this weekend, I can't remember the name of it Chief LaDigia or something like that in northern Alabama, and one of the things about it is, I said, just go and enjoy the silence.

01:00:49.097 --> 01:00:55.644
Sometimes it's just about enjoying the silence and the nature and where you are and how gorgeous it is.

01:00:55.644 --> 01:01:04.217
That place was beautiful and I can't tell you how many times I said to myself I wish I wasn't out here killing myself for a hundred miles.

01:01:04.217 --> 01:01:06.224
I wish I was just out here camping.

01:01:06.224 --> 01:01:13.822
It is gorgeous out here, so I've gotten to experience things out there that I would have never experienced otherwise.

01:01:13.822 --> 01:01:16.847
So beautiful place for sure.

01:01:16.847 --> 01:01:25.811
I mean you know you're talking 50, 80, a hundred foot pines everywhere, you know, thick as thieves, and it's just a beautiful place.

01:01:25.811 --> 01:01:26.713
Single track trails.

01:01:26.713 --> 01:01:29.056
It's a good venue.

01:01:29.056 --> 01:01:39.733
It's in the middle of nowhere Louisiana, so you don't have any cell phone service out there, but that's kind of good sometimes too, though.

01:01:40.235 --> 01:01:41.967
Yeah, yeah, just get away from it for a bit.

01:01:41.967 --> 01:01:43.471
Nobody can get you.

01:01:43.471 --> 01:01:44.492
I like it.

01:01:44.492 --> 01:01:54.925
Well, I think that's fair and that's why we asked the question right, because we're trying to provide information for folks listening who may or may not have heard of this race and were out there looking for it.

01:01:54.925 --> 01:01:56.251
So I think that's fair.

01:01:56.251 --> 01:02:06.583
Now, another thing we do each episode is to encourage guests to choose a song to add to the free Spotify Choose to Endure playlist.

01:02:06.583 --> 01:02:15.134
Typically, it's something family friendly, if I can get the words out, that would motivate you, kind of keep you moving while you're out on the trail there.

01:02:15.134 --> 01:02:22.478
Now, if you would, what did you guys choose to add and why does it resonate with you?

01:02:22.478 --> 01:02:25.893
And I'll start with Scott what was your choice?

01:02:26.014 --> 01:02:29.255
Scott, I think my song was the Phoenix by the Fall Out Boys.

01:02:29.255 --> 01:02:33.351
It's a very upbeat and it's just.

01:02:33.351 --> 01:02:36.335
It's a motivational upbeat, fast.

01:02:36.335 --> 01:02:45.237
And when you're you know, when I'm out running in the morning and I hear it come on, it's almost like I automatically feel my pace pick up just a little bit or feel a pep in my step come.

01:02:45.237 --> 01:02:46.704
So good song.

01:02:46.704 --> 01:02:51.375
If you haven't heard it really good song, put it on your playlist yeah, for sure, we're gonna add it.

01:02:51.474 --> 01:02:53.467
So, uh, so yeah, I did listen to it.

01:02:53.467 --> 01:02:55.173
It it was pretty good, it's pretty upbeat.

01:02:55.173 --> 01:02:58.733
And then, kurt, your choice was whatever it takes.

01:02:59.074 --> 01:02:59.916
Imagine Dragons.

01:02:59.916 --> 01:03:02.313
I'm sure you've never listened to that one, have you?

01:03:05.626 --> 01:03:08.355
My son is a huge Imagine Dragons fan.

01:03:08.355 --> 01:03:13.744
He's 10 years old and my wife took him to his first concert, which was Imagine Dragons.

01:03:13.744 --> 01:03:17.168
So, yes, I am somewhat familiar with that song.

01:03:17.168 --> 01:03:22.686
But why does it resonate with you as a as a running song or a song you would put on to?

01:03:22.726 --> 01:03:22.827
run.

01:03:22.827 --> 01:03:42.010
So, like we already talked about that, there is a big mental aspect to doing doing ultra, but there's also a huge you gotta get pumped up, you gotta, you gotta go to a place sometimes that it's just guttural.

01:03:42.010 --> 01:03:47.445
And that song, whatever it takes, I love the adrenaline in my veins.

01:03:47.445 --> 01:03:51.251
It just there's just something about it.

01:03:51.251 --> 01:03:54.157
Now, that's just when you ask for a song.

01:03:54.157 --> 01:03:56.480
There were so many that I listened to.

01:03:57.025 --> 01:03:59.695
I kind of do different things with music.

01:03:59.695 --> 01:04:03.356
I equate the music I listen to to the movies I watch.

01:04:03.356 --> 01:04:25.097
So I have a lot of music scores on my playlist from movies and so if you ever want to hear some very dramatic scores dark tower has some most dramatic just it's those things where you can you there's no, there's no words to the music.

01:04:25.097 --> 01:04:31.835
So it allows you in your brain just to go wherever you want to go and have that music hype you up.

01:04:31.835 --> 01:04:38.945
How does it help when you've seen the scenes in the movie that equate to that music, and it's those battle scenes.

01:04:38.945 --> 01:04:44.818
And when you see those things, then it just feels like I'm out there and nothing's going to stop me.

01:04:44.818 --> 01:04:48.371
It's like it's just me and the trail and it's the next step.

01:04:48.813 --> 01:04:50.757
Yeah, yeah, I get that.

01:04:50.757 --> 01:05:08.630
You know, when I was a kid growing up, I used to watch the Rocky movies, and so anytime I hear the trumpet sounds at the beginning of the training montage you don't have to have a word of that song, or just play the tune and it brings you right there.

01:05:08.650 --> 01:05:09.572
It brings you right there it.

01:05:09.572 --> 01:05:11.657
But yeah, really cool, very cool.

01:05:11.657 --> 01:05:22.679
Well, I appreciate you, uh, picking some songs and we will definitely get those added to the playlist so that folks out there can enjoy those tunes as much as you both do.

01:05:22.679 --> 01:05:27.918
Kurt scott, thank you so much again for joining us today.

01:05:27.918 --> 01:05:36.318
I I really hope their red dirt louisiana adventure might have encouraged you listeners to get over to the UltraSignUp website.

01:05:36.318 --> 01:05:48.105
Maybe consider signing up for either the 50K or the 50 mile, now that there is no 100 mile left out there in Backwoods, louisiana, I'm sure they do some good food.

01:05:48.105 --> 01:05:56.755
Knowing Louisiana as we do, we have a lot of family over in South Louisiana, so I'm sure they put on a good spread at the aid stations as well.

01:05:56.755 --> 01:06:05.355
While you're out there on the internet checking out Red Dirt and maybe even Wildcat Ultras, which is where the guys are headed to together.

01:06:05.454 --> 01:06:19.393
Next, don't forget to subscribe to the show and get notified each time a new episode comes out and, of course, share, follow and maybe even consider taking two minutes to give the show a review over there on Apple Podcasts.

01:06:19.393 --> 01:06:20.697
It would be very much appreciated.

01:06:20.697 --> 01:06:32.550
Doing any of those things really does help with the algorithms, and that, in turn, helps get the word out, helps other runners find the information that guests like Kurt and Scott have to share, that guests like Kurt and Scott have to share.

01:06:32.550 --> 01:06:38.994
You can find us on Instagram and on Facebook and at ChooseToEndurecom.

01:06:38.994 --> 01:06:48.822
Be sure to head over to any of those, check us out, say hello or drop us a message, suggest a topic or provide some constructive feedback if you have a moment.

01:06:48.822 --> 01:06:52.869
We really do love getting those interactions.

01:06:52.869 --> 01:06:58.208
So until then, run long, run strong and keep choosing to endure.

01:06:59.490 --> 01:07:02.920
Thanks for running with us at the Choose to Endure podcast.

01:07:02.920 --> 01:07:05.025
We hope you enjoyed the show.

01:07:05.025 --> 01:07:06.429
We had a blast.

01:07:06.429 --> 01:07:11.318
If you did, make sure to like, rate and review, and we'll be back soon.

01:07:11.318 --> 01:07:16.907
Keep racking up the miles and the stories and we'll catch you at the next trailhead.

01:07:16.907 --> 01:07:21.798
Until then, remember to run long, run strong.

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