April 12, 2024
Mindset & Mental Wellbeing w/ Shannon Mick: Unlocking the Potential to Transform Your Ultra Running.
Ever felt like the last few miles of an ultra were battling not just your body, but your mind? I'm Richard Gleave, and together with counselor and ultramarathon aficionado Shannon Mick, we unravel the mental labyrinth of ultra running. We're taking you through a journey of mind over marathon, revealing how a shift from a fixed to a growth mindset isn't just psychobabble—it's your secret weapon to outlast those daunting distances. In this deep dive, Shannon gifts us with strategies to turn self-doubt into self-belief, embracing the grind as a chance to emerge more resilient.
Ultra running isn't just about the legs; it's about the stories we tell ourselves with each stride. As I share from my own trove of experiences, we'll show you how mindfulness can be more than a trendy term—it's the glue that holds your mental game together when the going gets tough. We talk about the power of SMART goals to cut through the fatigue fog, keeping you razor-focused on the why behind each step. Let's transform those monotonous miles into moments of zen together.
Running is more than a solo sport; it's about the shared sweat and solidarity. In this episode, we celebrate the back-of-the-pack heroes and dissect the essence of community within the ultra scene. We navigate the emotional rollercoaster of setbacks, and instead of dwelling on the dips, we plot the comeback. It's about setting goals that stretch you, finding strength in your fellow runners, and making the journey back from injury or a tough race not just possible, but part of your growth story. Tune in and tap into the collective endurance of our trail-blazing tribe.
Finish Stronger Mindset Coaching:
https://finishstrongermindsetcoaching.com
https://linktr.ee/finishstrongermindsetcoaching/
Website:
https://www.choosetoendure.com/
YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@ChoosetoEndure
Instagram:
https://instagram.com/choose_to_endure?utm_source=qr
Facebook:
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Chapters
00:00 - Unlocking Mental Toughness in Ultra Running
14:46 - Enhancing Mental Wellness With Mindfulness
19:22 - Ultra Running Belief, Growth, Community
29:08 - Maintaining a Healthy Mindset in Running
Transcript
WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome, All right.
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So do you feel like you're constantly battling your own mind on those long, lonely miles at the back of the pack?
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Have you ever wondered how shifting your mindset might not only improve your endurance but also transform your entire ultra running experience?
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Are you struggling with the mental toughness needed for ultra running?
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Well, what if the key to unlocking your potential as a slower runner like me lies in the way you approach mental wellness and training?
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You're listening to Choose to Endure the show dedicated to the back of the pack runners, where we share uplifting stories, interviews, gear and training tips specific to the tail-end heroes of the Ultra universe.
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My name's Richard Gleave.
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I've been running Ultras now since 2017, and I've taken on and finished numerous distances, all the way up through 220 miles, and I am unashamedly a member of the back of the pack, just like you.
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With me today.
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To help shine a light on those questions, and maybe more, is the wonderful Shannon Mink from Finish Stronger Mindset and Mental Wellness Coaching.
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Shannon has over a decade of experience working as a counselor in the mental health field and eight years of experience as an ultramarathon runner, so she noticed there was a need for mindset, work, mental wellness skills and race strategies in the ultrarunning community.
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So she branched out into coaching and today she runs a private non-clinical practice and coaching business.
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She's a mom.
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She wears many other hats and continues to train for and race in ultras.
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So if you're ready to dig in and explore the power of the mind, don't go anywhere.
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We'll be back in just a flash.
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Discover raw, inspiring stories from runners who've been right where you are.
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This is the Choose to Endure.
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Ultra Running Podcast With your host he's English, not Australian Richard Gleave.
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So, shannon, welcome to the show.
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Thank you so much for joining us today to share some wisdom.
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How's it going?
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Pretty well.
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Thank you so much for having me on, Richard.
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Absolutely Well.
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I'm excited to get into this topic because I think it's a really interesting one.
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Before we get too far into the weeds, though, I think probably we should start off getting ourselves and the listeners square on the terminology first.
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So when we talk about mindset and resiliency, what do those terms actually mean?
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Yes, just so we're all on the same page.
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Your mindset, it's a set of beliefs that shape how you make sense of the world and yourself.
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It influences how you think, feel and behave in any given situation, and our thoughts can shape how we behave.
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So, in order to achieve our highest goals, we must know how to manage the mind.
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And I'm sure you've heard of fixed mindset and growth mindset.
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So here's a couple examples that, specifically, ultra runners back of the Packers might have.
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So fixed example is's I can learn to do anything.
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I want A few more examples, so here's a fixed one.
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That's just who I am.
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I can't change it.
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And then growth If you have to work hard, you don't have the ability.
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That's a really big one.
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Switch it to growth.
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The more you challenge yourself, the smarter you become.
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So racing smarter, implementing strategies, knowing how to tackle a course better.
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Yeah.
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Okay, let's see.
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I have two more examples, so a fixed one.
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If I don't try, then I won't fail.
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That might be one geared towards being fearful of signing up for a race and then growth would be.
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I only fail when I stop trying Absolutely and fixed again.
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That race is out of my league and growth would be.
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That race looks challenging.
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Let me register for it.
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Yeah, and how many times do we as runners particularly, you know, non-elite runners get stuck in one of those fixed mindsets and we say a lot and I'm sure you're familiar, you know ultra running is, it's all mental, it's a mental challenge and I think most of the time we convince ourselves we can't do these things.
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And if we're convincing ourselves before we've even started we are definitely not doing ourselves justice.
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I don't think getting out, even getting I mean even getting onto the starting line of some races is a challenge in of itself.
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Going through all of that training and going through that mental prep and just having the courage to stand on the starting line, no matter what happens after that, I think, is a big deal to a lot of us.
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So, yeah, making sure that mindset is good from the outset and is allowing us to go do the physical challenge that comes after it in addition to the mental stuff, I think that's really, really cool.
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Let's talk about how to unfix a fixed mindset.
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So there's a couple of little things here that you can do.
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One is to focus on the journey and not the end result.
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Focus on the journey and not the end result.
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Right?
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So you want to focus on your preparation for your races and not always just focus on that end result of the race, because you don't want to miss all of the little details along the way.
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So focus on the journey, not the end result.
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Second thing is to incorporate the word.
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Yet you just haven't mastered it yet, the word.
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Yet it suggests to us that, despite any struggles, you can still overcome anything.
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And then two more things pay attention to your words and your thoughts.
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Replace negative thoughts with positive ones.
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It helps to think realistically as well.
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And then the last one is to take on challenges.
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And you know we do this so that we can make mistakes and we can learn from them.
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Embrace the challenge and we can learn from them, embrace the challenge.
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Yeah, I think sometimes it's that allowing us to fail a little bit, allowing us the grace to say you know what, I'm going to try this and it may not work out, but that's okay because that's a learning experience.
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And next time I go to do this, I know I need to pack an extra shirt or some extra socks or whatever it needs to be if the weather's like this.
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No, I need to pack an extra shirt or some extra socks or whatever it needs to be if the weather's like this.
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But yeah, just allowing ourselves the time and a bit of grace to make those mistakes, and as long as we learn from them, I think it's okay to do that.
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In fact, you probably learn more from that than you would if you succeeded.
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If you succeed, you probably learned that you did the right thing in that race, in that moment, in that particular instance, and that's great too.
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But yeah, I definitely I'm more inclined to learn from the failure stuff, I think, than I succeeded this time.
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That was cool, but I'm not sure that that gives me quite as much growth opportunity mentally, as the failure does for sure.
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Right, yeah, yeah.
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And you know what?
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I think, sometimes the failure stories are the best ones, just because, like you've gone through so much and you pushed so hard.
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And then to like, for example, dnf, a race, I don't know, I always think that there's some really good stories behind that, versus the ones where we finish the ones where we finish.
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Yes, absolutely so many good DNF stories out there where something went wrong or some crazy thing happened that kind of prevented us from getting to the finish.
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But yeah, those are the races we remember.
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We remember the feelings as much as anything.
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And I know I still remember my first race where I sat on a step for I don't know, probably 10 minutes.
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I just sat down a mile from the finish of the race and I was just I've a step for I don't know, probably 10 minutes.
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I just sat down a mile from the finish of the race and I was just I had enough and I thought no, I'm not doing this anymore.
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And uh, and a lady ran by me and said, um, what are you doing sitting there, like so I, you know.
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I told her I was done.
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She said you're not done, you're done when you get to the finish.
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So she's like get up and get to the finish and then you can sit down.
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And so, oh gosh, wow, okay.
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And immediately my head flipped and I was like, well, she thinks I can get to the finish.
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So I now believe I can get to the finish.
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But yeah, it's the stories and the feelings I think that we associate with those things that really stick with us and help us push forward.
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Yeah, there's a lot of meaning in those things and I think it's important that we look for the meanings and the whys of why we're out there, and that's a whole nother topic.
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Yeah, maybe we'll get into that one in another day yeah.
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So one of the things I do like and I'm guilty of this too, you know ultra running is definitely as much a mental challenge as it is a physical one.
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I'm curious how, as slower runners, how do we manage and overcome a lot of those negative thoughts and the self-doubt that we have, like myself, on that step during these long races?
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Are there some techniques we can use or practice in advance that would allow us to sort of, I guess, first of all, recognize because this is where I struggle recognize that I'm in that negative thought zone.
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And then, secondly, what can I do for identify when you're in a negative space?
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Maybe you're just so consumed by your race and focused that you're kind of just going along and you don't realize quite how down you're feeling and I'll talk about mindfulness in a little bit but it can be hard to identify negative thoughts.
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It's hard to identify negative thoughts when we're not racing as well.
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So I mean, it's just something that takes practice in itself, but reframing those negative thoughts into realistic ones, positive thinking.
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Now, people usually just say just think positively, just think positively.
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Yes, so positive thinking is actually a byproduct of thinking realistically.
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Oh, interesting.
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Yeah.
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So if your negative thought is you're going to miss the cutoff time, you're going to reframe that thought into something realistic and then it's going to make you feel positive about it.
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So then you say keep moving forward and continue the effort.
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You have a chance of making it, Don't give up, Okay.
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And then here's another example.
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Wow, yeah, very cool.
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This race is so hard I'm in over my head, okay, and then we're going to reframe it.
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You trained hard and appropriately.
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You can finish this race.
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Brilliant.
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I'm going to need those tattooed on my arm or something.
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I think I might have to go get those and make a little note for myself somewhere and stick it in my shorts.
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Yeah, it kind of makes me think of one of the other questions.
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You know, what are the effective strategies for developing a strong mental mindset that can help slower runners through tough moments of an ultra race?
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So very like, very similar strategies and let me just say like, strategies are skills which need practice during our training.
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So you can't expect to just go out and race and to be able to do all these strategies.
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You have to practice them during your training Like, how do you talk to yourself Whenever you're doing some hard repeats or hard effort, running, anything like that, your long run, what does that sound like and how are you handling that?
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I came up with a handful of my favorite strategies and, again, things that I love to teach people.
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So the first one is that positive self-talk, so saying things like you got this relentless forward, progress, dig deep, you're fine.
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That's my favorite one.
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To tell me myself.
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I'm usually so tired and all I can think of are like two words and it's you're fine, you're fine, you're fine.
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You're fine.
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You're fine, it's all right.
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And I will literally just repeat that over and over again for hours.
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Sometimes it's ridiculous.
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You know other things, like if you don't mind, it doesn't matter and keep up the effort.
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So that self-talk is a really big one for us.
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And even when we're not racing again, that can be something tough to work on.
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Yeah, like acknowledge it's tough to work on, but just keep after it and monitor your progress and celebrate your wins.
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And so then a second strategy is to break down the course into manageable chunks.
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So running aid station to aid station, tree to tree, rock to rock.
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Think of if you have an out and back race.
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So you say if I can run out, then I can run back.
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Or if it's a looped course, get through this loop and then there's only one loop left.
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So really chunking that race down into mentally manageable pieces, down into mentally manageable pieces.
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And then the third one is to practice mindfulness.
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And this goes back to kind of like what you were saying about with the other question, with the negative thoughts.
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So we're better able to pinpoint our thoughts and physical sensations, emotions.
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So mindfulness, what it is, it is being fully present in the small moments, on purpose and non-judgmentally.
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And you can even practice this in your home and again during your runs.
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But I like to tell people, start practice this at home, and it can be as simple as when you go to the bathroom and you wash your hands.
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Practice focusing on just washing your hands and what that looks like, what it feels like, what it sounds like, what it smells like You're engaging all of your senses and just washing your hands.
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So you're participating fully and you're being present.
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And if you have a distraction, just realize that distractions are a part of our life.
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We're distracted all the time and it's kind of terrible, but you know that's just the part of life.
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and uh, you know, be nonjudgmental of it, because that distraction is just the reminder to return to focusing on washing your hands.
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Yeah, I mean this.
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This is one I particularly like and this is one of the time trying to actively do as much as possible right now in in life, in work, in my actual job, in addition to to the uh well, I, I made an active choice to try to be mindful and present as much as I could in the race that I recently ran, which is a big, long race, and so I I was like I'm not going to think about how long this is, I'm not really going to think about, or I'm going to try not to think about where I am on the course, necessarily in relation to anything else, like oh my gosh, I've run 60 miles, or oh my gosh, I've got another 160 miles to go.
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It's just I was doing as much as I can to okay, I'm just going to, I'm going to be where I'm at and I'm going to be as I am and I'm going to move to here, and then I'm going to be where I'm at there and as I am there, and I'm going to move to the next place or pole I did electric poles down the road, you know, I'm going to run to this next one or I'm going to walk to and run to the next one and reevaluate or something.
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But yeah, the mindfulness, I think that really helps, especially the longer you go just trying to ignore all the stuff outside, all the other distractions, and just focus on what you're doing right now.
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And you know, many, many small versions of that really add up over time and suddenly you find yourself 100 miles into a 200 mile race and you think, oh, my goodness, where the heck did that go?
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I didn't even realize and I know that sounds weird, but it does happen, it really does.
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So I love the mindfulness and for me, that's one I'm trying to participate in as much as possible, trying to actively practice, as you say, and I would definitely suggest, if you're listening to this, that would be a really, that would be one you can, you can jump into right now.
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Wherever you're at, whatever you're doing, you can practice that one.
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It doesn't require you to be on a trail or in a race or anything.
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That's one that I think we should all be doing full stop.
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Yeah right, exactly Mindfulness.
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So whenever I walk someone through a mindfulness exercise, exactly Mindfulness.
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So whenever I walk someone through a mindfulness exercise, they usually say you know, I feel so peaceful or it's calming.
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And that's the end result of mindfulness.
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And it is.
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It's calming and it increases our awareness to our bodies.
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So, like I said, our physical sensations, thoughts and emotions, yeah, yeah, I think that's fantastic.
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Now you talked about goals and I talked about goals a little bit, but setting goals and breaking things up into smaller chunks and then working each chunk as we go.
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So how does breaking down those goals, how does setting those sort of realistic, maybe challenging goals, how can those goals enhance our, our mental wellness?
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How does breaking it up assist us?
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yeah, so I like to teach people the smart goals s-m-a-r-t goals approach.
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So it's the acronym, it's um specific, measurable, achievable and time bound.
00:19:21.436 --> 00:19:21.758
Great.
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Yes, yep, I think that's kind of like how we know say like, if there's a goal of a race, how do you know if it's realistic that you can do that challenging race, right?
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And you know, I like to think of it like if, if it makes you feel excited, so there's like anxiety, excited right, like anxiety can sometimes feel like excitement.
00:19:49.794 --> 00:20:00.401
So it can be a little bit confusing registering for a race and you're unsure if you can finish it.
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I say to consider what it would take to properly prepare, using, you know, say like SMART goals, and ask yourself what is the worst that could happen if you take a stab at it.
00:20:13.570 --> 00:20:18.448
Yeah for sure, and you know that's how you progress Sometimes.
00:20:18.448 --> 00:20:25.817
So back to our previous conversation if you put yourself on the start line and you have a bit of courage, feel like you can get yourself there.
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Really, whether you finish the race or you don't finish the race, you're going to learn something, and maybe you end up going further than you've ever gone before, even if you don't finish the race.
00:20:35.365 --> 00:20:50.232
And suddenly now, I believe I think for me that's part of certainly my challenge, and maybe others too, I don't know, but believing self-belief, convincing myself that I can do these things, and then actually going out and either.
00:20:50.232 --> 00:20:55.957
And so I thought, oh, I wonder if I can go that one bit extra and do a 50K, you know, which is five miles further.
00:20:55.957 --> 00:21:15.258
And so I did that and I thought, having done that, I wonder if I could do 50 miles.
00:21:15.258 --> 00:21:18.252
And in my head I was thinking they're both 50s.
00:21:18.252 --> 00:21:20.712
I mean, how much further can 50 miles be than 50K?
00:21:20.712 --> 00:21:25.515
Well, it's actually a heck of a lot further, but I didn't realize that at the time, or at least.
00:21:25.515 --> 00:21:27.570
But that's the progression, right.
00:21:27.570 --> 00:21:37.038
And so I've got further and further, and I think this is the way others work too, and it can work in race, just as it can when you're signing up for a race and trying to challenge yourself.
00:21:41.404 --> 00:21:42.508
Do I think I can make that next aid station?
00:21:42.508 --> 00:21:43.189
I'm not sure.
00:21:43.189 --> 00:21:44.071
Oh, I'm going to keep going and I'll.
00:21:44.071 --> 00:21:44.532
I did make it, oh great.
00:21:44.532 --> 00:21:46.057
And this belief comes through.
00:21:46.116 --> 00:22:05.873
So, yeah, I think, as long as your goals are I love the SMART goals acronym there as long as they're realistic and you have some chance of completing that based on known history and where you are, I think those can really help develop belief in yourself which then pushes you forward.
00:22:05.873 --> 00:22:20.637
But you know I'm not out there, I'm not going to go win Western States, so that would be a not a realistic or a particularly smart goal for me to go chase, but maybe one of these days I would love to run a hundred mile race in 24 hours.
00:22:20.637 --> 00:22:27.234
That might be a much more realistic goal for me to chase and I think doing that really helps focus.
00:22:27.234 --> 00:22:33.115
It helps put the mental side of things in place to say I think I could do that.
00:22:33.115 --> 00:22:34.118
What would I need to do?
00:22:34.118 --> 00:22:48.605
As you were saying, what am I going to have to do to get there from a training and then a race day perspective and work those negative thoughts and the self-doubt out and replace with some of that growth mindset and self-belief instead.
00:22:49.468 --> 00:22:53.678
Right, yeah, to positively reinforce self-belief.
00:22:53.678 --> 00:23:13.984
All it takes is that one teeny, tiny step forward and just go for it, whether it's registering for a race or putting your running clothes out the night before you go for your run in the morning to make sure that, yeah, I'm going to run tomorrow morning, so I'm going to lay out my clothes ahead of time.
00:23:13.984 --> 00:23:22.176
So, whatever that small action step looks like, that definitely helps put that into forward motion.
00:23:22.176 --> 00:23:36.046
And again, like you're saying, then you go do it and then it just kind of breaks any negative self-talk that you have about yourself.
00:23:36.046 --> 00:23:40.211
I like to think of it as a narrative, like a story.
00:23:40.211 --> 00:23:47.740
So like what kind of stories or narratives do we tell about us, about ourselves, throughout our lives?
00:23:47.740 --> 00:23:52.155
And it's like very similarly with running as well.
00:23:52.155 --> 00:23:56.494
So breaking that down and just kind of proving it wrong.
00:23:57.237 --> 00:23:57.698
Oh, I love it.
00:23:57.698 --> 00:24:00.493
I'm all for proving people wrong, including myself.
00:24:00.493 --> 00:24:07.789
When you talk about some of that growth and self-belief, for me at least, a lot of that comes from the people I'm around.
00:24:07.789 --> 00:24:30.894
So how important and we talk a lot about on the podcast here, about the trail community being one of the really cool things about trail running and ultra running, the other people that are doing this and how at least in our world at the back of the pack, it's a lot more about helping each other get to the finish, more so, realistically, than we're not trying to win too much.
00:24:30.894 --> 00:24:37.113
So how important is the community aspect in building mental strength?
00:24:37.113 --> 00:24:46.796
And what role does the sort of support networks from running groups or trail groups or other people that you meet along a, along an ultra race, on the course itself?
00:24:46.796 --> 00:24:53.236
What role do you think those, those play in in the mental health of, uh of us slower runners?
00:24:53.537 --> 00:24:57.770
yeah, I think it's so important that you have that community there in the back.
00:24:57.770 --> 00:25:02.318
It just I can't think of what that saying is something about.
00:25:02.318 --> 00:25:15.381
Like misery loves company, and it kind of helps to distract from what you're going through.
00:25:15.381 --> 00:25:19.152
Another thing is you're all working towards the same goal.
00:25:19.152 --> 00:25:21.857
You know you're all out there battling the course together.
00:25:21.857 --> 00:25:29.750
And then, of course, the third thing would be we're all suffering, we all hurt, and it's okay I'll hurt with you.
00:25:29.750 --> 00:25:35.857
You know, it's kind of like one of my DNFs at Whale Creek 100.
00:25:35.857 --> 00:25:40.278
Me and my friend Joel were at Mile.
00:25:40.278 --> 00:25:43.932
Oh goodness, it was a really bad weather year.
00:25:45.189 --> 00:25:57.059
Everyone remembers this year it will never be forgotten, because there was only like a 20% or lower finishing rate that year because of all the rain and mud we got.
00:25:57.059 --> 00:26:16.727
And I just remember him and I being together for so many miles and we just felt like it was a death march and we knew that we had like, oh, eight, eight, yeah, eight miles to go until we got to the next aid station where we would miss the cutoff.
00:26:16.727 --> 00:26:24.529
So it was like we knew we were doomed anyway, but just like being there with each other.
00:26:24.529 --> 00:26:40.057
And then so, like you know, it's dark and there's mud up our shins and it's cold, the wind is blowing and I think I saw some snow flurries and I was wearing like this very heavy jacket.
00:26:40.057 --> 00:26:50.001
You know that was supposed to be like wind and waterproof, and I swear that wind was cutting right through it because I was getting hypothermic for like a second time in the race.
00:26:50.201 --> 00:26:50.762
It was just.
00:26:50.762 --> 00:27:07.914
It was just so awful sharing that terrible moment together and we come along some porcupines, and it was just so fun because you know you're running at night.
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