Kelli Means’ Business: From First-Time Volunteer to Ultra Marathon Finisher

Announcer: 0:07

This is the Choose to Endure Ultra Running Podcast with your host. He's English, not Australian Richard Gleeve.

Richard: 0:20

So welcome back. This, once again, is the Choose to Endure podcast, this show dedicated to the back of the pack runners who are redefining possible one epic mile at a time. So have you ever thought of volunteering at a race, or are you maybe yet to run your very first Ultra? Well, if so, then you're in luck. In this episode we are celebrating with the very excellent Miss Kelly Means, who has recently done both. Kelly is a therapist by day and is relatively new to the Ultra Running community. She's been signed up for the inaugural Cowboy 200, which starts in our hometown in Nebraska back in November last year but unfortunately had to defer due to injury. So she chose to use the opportunity to get more acquainted with the Ultra World and ended up volunteering at several aid stations throughout the course. And then this year she competed in a 72 hour Ultra in June, which was her first one, and in October just gone also completed her first straight 50k. Kelly continues to volunteer at the Cowboy 200. She's a current Ultraverse Supplements Ambassador and and I love this has started a side hustle building buckle display shelves and metal hangers. So, kelly, huge welcome to the show first of all. But I've got to ask, before we get into anything else. How did the side hustle come about? Are you building these yourself? And how do I get one? Because that's really cool?

Kelli: 2:05

Yes, I am I. I like doing some woodworking stuff just for fun. It's soothing to me and so I made this year. There was just one of those quotable moments as one of the runners crossed the finish line and they were talking about one of the hallucinations that they had seen towards the end there and said it took me four hours to unflip that road so I could get down it. And it became.

Richard: 2:36

Unflip the road.

Kelli: 2:38

That's an edited version.

Richard: 2:40

I gotcha.

Kelli: 2:43

And so it kind of became this ongoing joke, and one of the race directors, chase Hammond, had said that he wanted a poster of it, and so I took that as an opportunity. I do I make wooden signs that are stained with different stains and things like that, and I made a sign out of it, and then I'm like, well, hey, I can just add a little shelf right here and then it can be a buckle display. So I started doing that. I've made a couple. The one I just finished is it says road races are cool, but have you ever tried dying in the woods? out of stupidity, which I feel is just a great quote that describes ultra-running trail racing in a good way.

Richard: 3:28

Very apt. I would say that one. Yes, so are you taking orders? Are you on Etsy or how are you running this?

Kelli: 3:36

I'm not on Etsy yet. I'm just kind of taking orders as they come. And yeah, I'm just brand new into it a few months ago.

Richard: 3:46

Well, I think that's super cool, but I suppose we probably ought to talk a little bit about the rest of the ultra-running stuff. But I'm coming back to that because I want to know where to get one of those buckle shelves down the line. So what initially drew you into the world of ultra-running? Was it just that your friend had signed up, or did you have any exposure to ultras prior to that? I think you'd said when we were chatting you've maybe done some halfs and some marathons previously. Did you come across ultras at all before Cowboy in 2022? Or was that your first sort of exposure to it because it was right there in your hometown?

Kelli: 4:25

It was my first real exposure to it. I'd done I think at this point I've completed somewhere around like 10 or 12 half marathons. I did the Lincoln Marathon in 2021.

Richard: 4:40

It was awful.

Kelli: 4:42

It was terrible. It was so hot that day. I ran out of salt pills and electrolytes at about mile 18. I had blisters by mile eight. It was terrible.

Richard: 4:52

Oh, that's early for blisters.

Kelli: 4:54

Yeah, it was not great. It was not great, but I had heard of ultras, I had seen like some different memes and things and I'm like oh, it's just that typical phrase of and I think you had maybe said it in your introductory episode too it's just another five miles.

Richard: 5:13

But it's the last five miles, right? Nobody really gets that fact that it's the last five.

Kelli: 5:23

But we had just completed the. My friend had also done the Lincoln Marathon and decided she was going to sign up for the Cowboy 100. The way that she said it is. I know I'm not going to complete it, but I just want to see how far I can get, and so I had said yep, I'll, I'll crew you, I'll pace you for a little bit too, knowing that I had another race coming up after that. I think what I had after that was I went to Philadelphia with another friend of mine who wanted to do the Rocky Run.

Richard: 5:55

Yeah 5K.

Kelli: 5:56

So we went and did that, the only 5K race I've ever done. I did things backwards. Not a fan of running fast, it hurts. I like the stupid long distance.

Richard: 6:06

It really does. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I'm trying to run fast. I'm not fast anyway, and I gave up trying to be fast and I was like, no, if I can run a race where I can drink beer during the race, that's for me. That's what I'm doing, for sure.

Kelli: 6:20

If I can eat quesadillas and any other food during a race, I'm good. That's my style.

Richard: 6:27

Yes, absolutely love that. I think we were chatting in another episode about the food differences, too, between the UK and over here. But I mean you can get burgers in this race, I think in the one-aid station there, the first-aid station, the really windy-aid station, at Cowboy, whose name escapes me.

Kelli: 6:47

That was not Stuart, oh gosh, I can't remember, but yes, the one where it fell over.

Richard: 6:55

Yes, yeah, I think I had four, maybe five burgers at that age station. There was a young chapter cooking burgers and he was like hey, do you want one? Yeah, just give me two. Ewing Ewing, that's right. Yes, and he was great and he's like you want more.

Announcer: 7:11

I'm like yeah.

Richard: 7:11

Just give me a couple more. I think I had either four or five burgers at that particular-aid station while the wind was trying to blow everybody away fully. Yeah, okay, so let's get into Cowboy a minute and, specifically, your experience is volunteering there, so you've signed up to, ended up signing up to volunteer at Cowboy in 22. What was that like for you? What kind of roles did you get to play from a volunteer standpoint, and were there any impactful moments for you where you were like, wow, yeah, this might be something I want to try at some point?

Kelli: 7:53

I really kind of came into it thinking I don't have an idea of what I'm doing, I'm just going to be there for whatever support that I can give, and so the first one that I went to that first year was in Neely.

Richard: 8:07

Oh, that's how you say it. I always say Nelly, is that not right? It's Neely, neely, neely, right. Okay, you know, we must have run about 50 miles trying to figure that out and we went backwards and forwards with all kinds of people, neely right, yeah, neely it's and there's.

Kelli: 8:23

I've heard of several different ways. I think this year I heard somebody call it Neely Neely and it took me a minute to understand what they were talking about.

Richard: 8:32

Yeah, I'm not sure about that one. Yeah, I'm not sure about that one, neely, though, yeah, okay, I can get that.

Kelli: 8:40

And Jonathan Prosser and his family were running that one and I came in and I just like, I'm here to help, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm here to help. And I just kind of stepped in and what can I do for you? I don't know what I'm doing, and then grabbing, you know, drop bags, refilling water bottles and packs and things like that, getting people food, and then I just sort of because I'm a back at the pack runner, I have nearly missed being DFL two or three times in my life. So that's that's my people, I always say. And so I was at the tail end of every yeah, every aid station I went to. I was at the tail end of those and I helped close up. Neely, it was, you know, following people and that's where I'd met you also and being able to to kind of bunny hop through that. I felt like I got to be crew for you guys in a way and it was. It was really nice being able to see the same people and watching you and that group keep going through. And I think by about the second or third, you guys were like didn't I see you before? Yeah.

Richard: 9:57

Yeah, and at some point I think all of us were like hang on, you keep showing up at these, at these, like are you rolling? I don't know what happened, and that's why I'm sort of curious like how you rolled down the course, because we were obviously not expecting that and yet every time we showed up and it didn't seem to matter what time of night or day or whatever it was we showed up. There you were. I mean, I think we showed up at the pool hall at some ridiculous time in the morning on a very, very cold night and there you were. You're here again and we're like hey, look, it's Kelly again.

Kelli: 10:35

With blankets.

Richard: 10:37

Yes, with blankets and ramen. You know the ultra-eruna health food, the ramen noodles there, yeah. So, and talking of Neely, I really liked that. That's the one by the bridge right. And so Jonathan did a great job running that age station because that's where I had my first beer of the race and I kept the running total. I think I hit at least four beers during the race and I know I scared some locals in. Where is it? Long Pine, in one of the bars over there right next to that age station. And weirdly, I had made a choice at that point too with Bob, who I was running with, as Agatha and the other chap had moved ahead. We made a point like, hey, we're going to get a beer. So we went into this little pub and everyone was like what on earth are you doing? Why are you here, kind of thing. But weirdly, we left that and went to the Long Pine age station. That's the only age station in the race that actually had beer in the fridge. And so we were like, oh really, yeah. So they definitely had beers in the fridge, they're over there. But yes, I think I hit four. So, but yeah, so we felt like we were kind of following you along the course almost, or you were jumping ahead. So so yeah, did you sign up for those, for those shifts? I mean, you really were. I don't know if we only saw you at night. I don't know if you did any day shifts, and was it literally just show up and I'll just do whatever. Or did you have any kind of assigned role within the age station, because you went on your own in each of these? There were other folks there too.

Kelli: 12:06

No I so. I'm a night owl and I know it's always harder to get night shifts covered for anything regardless. So I said I'll do night shifts, it doesn't bother me, I function better at night most of the time anyway and just kind of went into it with I'm just here as a volunteer. I'd signed up for those and then I had said I would do like HQ support. So as I was going along and the last runners came through the unmanned station, I was picking up a lot of those as well and then just taking them to the next aid station and then, as they close that up, they took it with them down the line. But I had just signed up for them as a volunteer. And but I feel like I came a long way from I don't know what I'm doing at all to helping somebody pop a blister at 2am. I feel like I kind of got.

Richard: 12:59

Oh Bob, I'm sure he'll appreciate that yeah.

Kelli: 13:03

I feel like I kind of got a really wide range of what it means and just each person that I talked to because most of the aid stations at Coway are run by other ultra runners and it was amazing. I really felt like I was just brought into that world saying, hey, I want to do this, I don't know what I'm doing yet, and everybody just kind of gave me all of their advice and it was amazing. I really felt welcomed. I had said this year I feel like I finally found my group of inappropriate weirdos.

Richard: 13:43

Yeah, another excellent reference. Definitely some inappropriate weirdos out there in the in the ultra space, but I think that is part of what sets, to some degree, trail running, but also, in particular, ultra running, a little bit apart from the road stuff, I mean, it is there's a lot less competitive for the vast majority of people. You're not really chasing pace times and you know, yes, some people are chasing cutoffs, but me being one of them but yeah, they're just the camaraderie and the social aspect of it and pretty much everyone's a weirdo out there doing it. There's all sorts of things you learn about somebody on the trail If you just meet a complete stranger. It's amazing how you can talk about something with a complete stranger that you would never talk about with. You know people that you know in everyday life. So, yeah, you end up leaving the trail with some really close relationships with people who you may not ever see again. But yeah, I just it's really cool.

Kelli: 14:46

And that's, that was my, that was my experience at the sticks also, that was so the sticks I was able to do with the way that Chase and Casey set up their races If you volunteer you get credit towards a race that you run with them, and so the number of I think I had logged 26 hours at the first cowboy 200. And so I was able to do the sticks free, which, as somebody who is broke, was a really good, a really good motivator. But I that was my plan, as I was going to do that as my introduction to ultra running, to see you know what, what do I have in me? And it was appealing to me because I'm never going to be more than three miles from an eight station.

Richard: 15:38

Yeah, so, and we'll get into that, because I think you made a smart choice there. I think there's types of races that would be a no, no, no, everyone wants to do the common sense entry into alters, but I think there are some that really lend themselves well to hey. Just I just want to see what I can do in a sort of safer environment, so to speak, and that's one of them. So we will get into that. But did you do you feel like your experience volunteering then from from what you were saying really helped you when you were out there racing? Did you learn any lessons from your, from your volunteering, maybe, that you were then able to take into the sticks?

Kelli: 16:17

Yeah, I one of them that's kind of humorous is the blisters. Kind of going back to that first, I could, you know, pop them ahead of time. It hurts, but it hurts less than there was one that I didn't. I didn't end up popping between between laps and or between loops and then it popped as I was running and that.

Richard: 16:41

Yeah, when you can feel that liquid kind of come out and you're like, oh, what's that? That doesn't feel great.

Kelli: 16:47

No, it didn't feel great, so that I mean that was one of them. And then keeping, keeping as many calories in me as possible. Hydration, you know, that's another one. Some of it I had just learned from, you know, running halves and marathon before.

Richard: 17:05

Yeah, I love that you. You spend time volunteering and watching all of us idiots run through a stations dehydrated and think, yep, I'm not going to do that. That is probably one thing I'm not going to do, because yeah. And, to be fair, chasing Casey, their approximate C stuff is really good when the calories built in there, but but, yes, hydration is great. So so, yeah, let's talk about the sticks, because that is a that is a timed race, right? So not a distance race, that's a timed race. So you did the 72 hour race and maybe just kind of if for anyone that doesn't know or isn't familiar with that kind of concept, maybe talk about that a bit and why you picked the 72 and not, I don't know, 48 hour or 24 hour. He just went for it.

Kelli: 17:54

Yeah, that's kind of how I do things. Like I said, I go a little bit backwards. The first race that I ever signed up for, I did a couple of like the Spartan Sprint, warrior Dash and then I really kind of like running and I went straight for half marathon. So I kind of go all in on a lot of things. But, as I said, I had earned enough credit to be able to do the full 72 hours and I said, why not? I can run for a couple hours and be done if I want to, but why not see how far I can go? So there wasn't much of a good logic to it other than just I want to see what I'm capable of.

Richard: 18:36

And that's really why I like that concept. I mean, if you're going for a new distance or you're trying to hit your first 100 or your first 50 or whatever it is, I just think signing up for the longest amount of time, basically, you've just given yourself 72 hours to do whatever you want to do, right, you could pack up and go home for 24 hours and come back. So I mean, it's just a continuous race for 72 hours you can go. I mean, was it a loop course or was it an out and back?

Kelli: 19:09

It was a loop course. So there's a set up it's at Casey's parents farm and they in the middle of, in the middle of their farmland there's, there's kind of like a little valley and they have a three mile course that winds back and forth through that. There are three awful terrible hills. Two of them are a like a literal 45 degree angle. Yeah, it's terrible, but it's, I mean it's. It was amazing, really kind of getting that that first. Look into what is a real trail look like. There's not a lot of those around Norfolk and the main one that I have is the cowboy trail which, as you know, is very, very well maintained for the most part.

Richard: 20:03

It's, it's lovely trail. Yeah, it's an old rail trail. That's now what was it? Crushed, crushed granite or some. I mean it's it's lovely. Well, very well maintained, yes, but not as you say. This is not a sticks and roots and rocks kind of kind of trade. It's not technical at all. No, no.

Kelli: 20:21

No. So it was really interesting and I I had no idea what to expect. I brought a whole tote of shoes I I really like shoes and I like having a lot of different ones in rotation. So right now I think I have eight different pairs of shoes that I can kind of choose from depending on what I'm doing that day for running, and I think I brought like four or five different pairs and I learned very quickly that hard shoes are for soft ground and soft shoes are for hard ground.

Richard: 20:54

There you go, absolutely.

Kelli: 20:57

And so that the first couple rounds I had had a couple pairs of my softer road shoes and I learned like. Very quickly I was like I my feet are getting completely beat up my toes.

Richard: 21:07

That's a deal yeah it was.

Kelli: 21:09

It was pretty awful. And so at one point I think it was the last 24 hours I looked at I had a one of my one of my friends who does a lot of hiking in Boulder. She had come down to help crew and pace me. And then my friend that had signed up for the Cowboy 100, emily, she crewed me as well throughout that and I told them at about 48 hours in do not let me use this pair of shoes because it doesn't have the right insoles. I don't have any support in them. It sounds really good at the time because there's really cushy in soul, but I'm going to regret it after about two miles and, sure enough, at one point I'm like maybe it won't be as bad this time. And and I got about halfway because there's. So there's the three mile loop in the middle and then every six hours you can do a road loop.

Richard: 22:04

Oh, okay.

Kelli: 22:06

And so the road loop is just you go down their lane and then you go around the section for miles. You come back and it ends up being, I think, 4.2 or 4.1 miles, something like that.

Richard: 22:19

Nice and do you? Is that a choice you get to make, or is everyone required to do the road loop at a certain time? It's a choice.

Kelli: 22:26

You can choose to do that or you can continue going with the three mile loop. At that point you're kind of sick of looking at it and and you can do one or two. There's a one hour timeframe so you can set out at the beginning of the hour. If you get back before the end of that hour, you can go for another loop if you would like to. But you can do. You can do two laps if you can get back within that hour space. I am I've never made it back to do two loops, yeah.

Richard: 22:59

But well, and so that kind of leads me into did you, did you have a strategy going in? Did you plan ahead of time with okay, this is what I'm going to do, I'm going to run from here to here and then I'm going to stop and eat or rest for an hour, or I'm going to sleep between these times and then carry on. Or were you just like I'm going in and I'm going to do whatever I can do and if I fall asleep, then I'll sleep? Did you have a strategy at all?

Kelli: 23:23

I kind of did so. My, my strategy going in, was more about not getting in over my head. I know I have a tendency to do that. I have a tendency to kind of push through things when I maybe shouldn't every time, but I had that tendency to get in over my head. So my, my main strategy was I'm going to stop after each loop, no matter what, I'll stop, I'll refill my water, I'll get something to eat. That was my main strategy, and then my kind of overall strategy with races is if it's a big hill, I'm going to walk the uphill and I'm going to run the downhill, which I think you had mentioned in your first episode too. That.

Richard: 24:06

Yeah, yeah, I I tried to stick to a plan that just was a it's a road based plan that doesn't translate well into trail altars at all, which are up and down and all over the place, and trying to stick to a run walk strategy is is challenging. Unless that strategy is, I'm just going to walk everything that even looks like an uphill and I'm going to run run anything that's remotely flat or down. Never walk a downhill. Yeah, but other than that, yeah, I had a terrible time with that as well. How long were you able to stick to that plan and did it? Did you find yourself changing throughout the race, changing the way your approach? Yeah, as you got further in.

Kelli: 24:51

I did really well at, you know, the stopping after each loop. Sometimes it was just to refill my water and then to go another one, but usually I sat down for at least five or 10 minutes and I would get something to eat. Because I know that's something that I struggle with in my marathon. At about mile 16 or so I just couldn't take in any more calories. Any food there just didn't sound good. I had gels with me, but even the gels just like Just not having it. Not having it so that, but being able to stop really helped me. I was able to eat every time I was hungry throughout the whole thing, and I'm I'm blessed in having an iron stomach so I can eat pretty much anything.

Richard: 25:34

Brilliant.

Kelli: 25:36

I don't. I don't think I've ever thrown up from from running or during a race or anything like that. You know, knock on wood, my next one is probably going to happen.

Richard: 25:47

But I'm going to tell you it's going to happen. So yeah, you've just jinxed yourself there, I think. But yeah but when it does it's okay. I mean, a lot of times that's the reset you need and you know you feel great afterwards and you can carry on and just don't need to drink, or you can drink some but don't eat too much afterwards. But yeah, sometimes it's the best thing that can happen, so definitely not the worst. Thing in the world, for sure. Yeah, so you got. You got 79 miles in 72 hours, is that correct? It is For your very first ultra, which I think is really cool. So well done.

Kelli: 26:21

Yeah, I and I slept each night. I wasn't sure how I was going to do with the sleep. I knew that I wanted to sleep some. As uneven as the field was, I was really not prepared for that. I had a headlamp but I didn't feel comfortable walking that even at night.

Richard: 26:42

Oh yeah, kind of ruts in the ground, sort of where you're putting your feet.

Kelli: 26:48

There wasn't really roots or anything like that. It's literally if you went out to a pasture and just mowed a path through it. So the whole thing is just uneven. Because it's through a hill, the trail is slightly tilted at all times it's about a 5% tilt at least to one side or the other through the whole thing.

Richard: 27:10

Oh, that's going to build up over time. I did a race a while back where a 300 kilometer race on a road on the Canberra. So you're running on one side on the tilt for all that time. So I fully understand your pain and what a mess that can cause your hips and leg after an amount of time.

Kelli: 27:30

Yeah, the thing that surprised me. I have a lot of issues with my hips. When you look at it on paper, I should not be a runner. There's so many things between having asthma and I have arthritis in my low back. I've had it since I was 24. I have one leg that is longer than the other and so my hips are kind of continuously offset and it causes a lot of issues with my one side. So most of the time when I run I have hip pain or leg pain because of that and I don't know what it was about this. But my hips and my leg felt better than ever. But the muscles and the tendons in my lower leg really that was what took the longest to heal. That's what hurt the longest. I think it was like a week and a half before that felt okay.

Richard: 28:20

Yeah, so congratulations on that race, thank you, but that wasn't your only race, as we said at the beginning, you had you recently, I think October completed your first, should we call? It a straight 50K, is that right? That was Yippee Kaye. I'm not familiar with that race, but a quick bit of investigation. That looks like another rail trail kind of race.

Kelli: 28:43

It is so that one I have done the first year that they had Yippee Kaye was 2020. And I've run it at least one of the distances every year. I did the half the first two years of it. Last year I did a five mile race and then this year I did the 50K and it is it's a rail to trail. There's a little bit of elevation through it. I was wildly under trained but I had kind of said I'm just going to do it. If I walk it, I walk it, yeah.

Richard: 29:14

And that's kind of what ended up happening a little after the halfway point and I had that very traditional everything that can go wrong went wrong with that one, oh, I'm familiar, but those are great because you get it all out in there and then you can learn so much from doing that kind of stuff. And chief among them, like, if it all hits the fan, you can, you can still keep going.

Kelli: 29:38

Yeah, so that the one drawback to that one is it it really is set up like a road race. Their aid stations are very much like a road race. You have water there. I think they had some electrolytes. They had Honey Stinger was their sponsor, so they have Honey Stinger projects. And I think I did get one of them, one of the honey's gel packets and it was so sweet that I just couldn't. I couldn't do it anymore. But I had brought I overpacked, of course, because I didn't know what I was going to need. I had talked to a couple of the guys that ran the Cabway 200 this past year Like I don't, I don't know what to expect. They didn't have a drop box, so I had to bring everything with me from the beginning.

Richard: 30:29

Oh right.

Kelli: 30:30

And so I kind of talked through with a couple of them and I did overpack. I overpacked on calories, knowing that I need to have a variety of things, because what sounds good at one point is not going to sound good a few miles later probably. But I I planned to do a two minute run walk and I had a little timer that I had attached to my, to my pack, and I took off a jacket. You know, I was kind of taking things off through the first couple of miles and at some point the timer fell off.

Richard: 31:06

Oh, oh, right, yeah, I didn't realize it.

Kelli: 31:08

It was on I can't remember if I was on a run or I think I was on a walk portion of it and I'm like, wow, this is going a long time. And I went to go look for it and I'm like, oh no, and I'm sure that as people were going by, they heard that every couple minutes going off and somewhere on the trail is beeping every two minutes, yeah somewhere on the trail that one is an out and back. I tried to kind of keep my eyes peeled for it on the way back, but I never did find it again. So that happened. I, when I'd taken something off at some point, I had stopped my watch. So I, my mileage and my time was a little bit off of. You know what the official time was? It was little things like that. That just kind of continuously happened. I had open ear headphones that I was planning to use. I had apparently forgot to charge them so I had to switch that a little bit and then about half of the trail has no cell service so the music that I had had, my phone was dying. My phone actually ended up dying two or three miles out from the finish, so I wasn't able to listen to music like I typically do to distract. I had a list of like four or five people that had said yep, you can call me if you get in a rough spot and I'll distract you. And I couldn't call most of them because there was either no service or very limited service.

Richard: 32:36

So how did you get through that? Like, did you have a strategy for, okay, I can't do that Now, I've got to do something else, I've got to find another way? Did you just kind of gut it out? Or did you distract some other way, like I make up stupid songs as I'm running along, just anything really. Did you have a bone? How did you get through that?

Kelli: 32:55

It was a little bit of both, a little bit of just sheer stubbornness. I'll always say one of my big characteristics, traits, is I'm a very stubborn person and that can work for me or against me, and in this sport it definitely works for me, that stubbornness of I'm just going to do it. If I have to walk it, I'll walk it and just kind of I just need to make it to this next point, to this next point. I did the alphabet game going through and boy, baby, boy names for every litter of the alphabet, or you know things like that. At one point I kept a running tally of how many caterpillars I found on the trail.

Richard: 33:36

I assume they were big. Or were they the ones hanging off the? You're hanging on a thread off the tree, or where were you finding caterpillars?

Kelli: 33:42

They were. They were on the ground. It was the, the fuzzy ones that are orange and black, which we have those up here in the. They usually come in the beginning of spring and the like old wives tale with it is that's how much rain that you'll have in each month of the summer is how big each of those lines are.

Richard: 34:00

Get away. I've never heard that in my life. That's awesome. Those aren't the poisonous ones. There are some poisonous caterpillars that are all fluffy and look nice Not those.

Kelli: 34:11

Not those ones now, okay, but yeah, I kept a running tally of those, and then, just every so often, you know, I check and see if I have any service. I I don't think I made up songs. I do that sometimes, though, but it was a lot of just I'm going to distract myself in any way possible.

Richard: 34:29

Yeah.

Kelli: 34:30

And kind of doing some of those things taking, because there's a lot of the bridges on that one as well, so taking pictures of some of the bridges- yeah, though, I think there was a lady in the in the 2022.

Richard: 34:42

Cowboy race that took a picture at every single bridge along the cowboy trail, and if you're not familiar with that trail, there's a heck lot of bridges on that trail across 200 miles. Yeah, that's. That was really cool.

Kelli: 34:55

Things like that. And this year when I was volunteering at cowboy I think it was at long pine aid station we were kind of chatting that one. I didn't work at long pine officially, I just crashed there for the night between eight stations, or I guess for the day it was. I got in at like I think around four or five am and slept about five or six hours and kept going from there.

Richard: 35:22

I think that is the only aid station I've ever been to that has you know. I mean, it's like a bunkhouse and it has all the separate rooms and you can get a shower midway through your race and a sleep in a proper bed. They've got the kitchen up front with you know, with with food and, like I said, the only one that had beer in the fridge.

Kelli: 35:42

Yeah, just an incredible aid station and what a brilliant place to stop and get a rest for volunteers to yeah, it was, it was great, but we were, we were kind of chatting for a little bit and one of the other people that was kind of bunny hopping with me, gary Shaw, who has the the leaky hourglass race that he does, but he was saying somebody asked him what do you do, how do you not get bored? And he goes Reliving past traumas mostly, and there's, there is some of that to some extent. You know, as you're going through you have all of those thoughts I always say when I run and it kind of lets my mind untangle a little bit. Yeah, so that I mean there is some of that too, having some of those conversations with myself and kind of coming to realize a few things, one of which there's there's a little bit of a running joke this year to of Cowboys, where you come to you can run a race and you can find your true love, or something along those lines. One of the runners, jeremy, and I ended up talking afterwards and so now we're dating. He just he lives in New Orleans and oh, wow. Flying back and forth.

Richard: 36:59

Yeah, well, congrats, that's brilliant. Thank you, yeah.

Kelli: 37:03

So that having some of those conversations with myself and kind of like, all right, maybe, maybe there is a little bit more to it than I thought it was just chatting, but it it's a very, it's a very interesting experience when you can have people to talk to and it's a very different experience when you're kind of on your own alone, and I think you would kind of spoke to that too In your first episode.

Richard: 37:30

It's tough. It's tough to do some of that on your own and that's ultimately why you know Cowboy 22, that's why we all had paired up in in Well, we paired up, but it was a group of four ultimately. That kind of did most of the second half of the race together. It was just so cold and we just know it took our minds off the cold, talking to each other and moving down the trail for the most part. But yeah, shout out to Gary Shaw, by the way, he gave me my second beer of the race. He donated one because I was asked O'Neill, we were at and I was asking the people there whether they had beer and they said what are you talking about? That's ridiculous, no. And so he over he over that. I was like hey, let's, I've got some beers. So he went and grabbed one and yeah, that was beer two at O'Neill. He has probably the best mustache that I have ever seen. It's pretty epic yeah it's a pretty epic mustache. Yes, congrats on that, gary. If you're listening, fantastic mustache. Don't quite know how he tames it, but I assume he does somehow. But there you go. So, based on your journeys, kelly, what would be your advice, if you know, for somebody out there who's listening, who is maybe interested in the, is maybe interested in ultra running or has heard of it, but is like, yeah, I'm not sure I haven't really taken my first step. I'm not really sure if I can do that.

Kelli: 38:55

I really feel like volunteering helped set me up in a lot of ways. I I got to meet a few different people that were helpful to me, and just kind of preparing for it and then doing my first race with the same race directors as the one I had volunteered with was amazing. Chasing Casey are just two of the best people I've ever met in my life. Walking into that race, I they saw me and immediately like oh hey, kelly, there wasn't even like a who are you? Again, it was immediately they were, they remembered me, I see you yeah. Yep, they knew my name when I came back in, for it was whichever lap had put me past that. twenty six point two Everybody was chanting PR, pr brilliant and they, they just truly are some of the best people I've ever met, just very, very kind and caring. And the race that you choose, I think it's going to help make that decision for you, you know, if you're with a group of people that really kind of encapsulate that spirit of the trail running. Like you said, there's no competition, just very encouraging. When I was at the sticks also, there was a Dina Carr who ended up winning the seventy two hour. She had something ridiculous like two hundred forty miles it was. It was way over two hundred miles. And as I was going through she kind of passed by me and had asked how are you doing? And I'm like I am really hurting my feet or awful. I think my toes are fifty percent blister at this point and she's like that's okay, you're doing great. And she asked what mileage I was at and she's like that's awesome. And she was probably twice or three times when I was at that point but she was so excited for me even though she was so far ahead of me in mileage. There was. There is just a genuineness that you can't fake, and I think you particularly can't fake it when you haven't slept in forty, eight or thirty six hours.

Richard: 41:06

Oh, for sure You're getting the real people at that point. You're getting the real, whomever you're talking to, for sure I love this. I mean, I think I think you're a sport on. I love it, it's, it's. I was trying to think of another sport that is this way, but you're running the exact same race at the same time, same course, whether you're elite or you're somebody way at the back, like me You're. You're all doing it at the same time and you're all having the same experience. And I was trying to think of any other sport where you get to compete at the same time in the same place as you know, really elite people who were out to win this, which is a very tiny percentage of all the runners that are out there. As you say, most other people are just out there to, you know, get a PR or finish or go a little further, and it's true, everybody is so encouraging and I absolutely love that. It's just a really fun community of people who are sort of you have to be kind of positive to get things done, and so I love that. It's the mindset of people that do these things changes over time into this sort of I can do it and breaking things down into short chunks, instead of thinking of it as a hundred mile race. It's it's two fifty mile races and I'm going to have a break in between and I only have to get fifty and that's. You know, if the eight stations are ten miles apart, that's five, eight stations and each one is only a ten mile. So I feel like I could do that. I could walk some of that if I had to.

Kelli: 42:36

I can do ten miles again. I can do ten miles again.

Richard: 42:40

You know. But so I love it and I was. But I think you're right. I mean I've, I've run races and you know, here in Texas and in shaman, one of the fantastic elite Runners was out there and he ran by me and he did the same thing. It was like, oh good job, yeah, you're looking good, keep going. And for him it's just an offhand comment, I guess, as he's running by some some old dude who's struggling round a course, but but I was like, oh my gosh, he just talked to me like you know, he's one of these elite runners that's out in western states and goodness knows what else, and and they I love that they hang around and At the end of races and this is something I've seen a lot and done myself. But I would, I would encourage anybody, whether you are in the sport or not, go stand for the last hour of Of a race. Go stand at the finish line and watch the last people come in. It is an incredibly Uplifting and emotional experience and I would say everybody should do that once in their life because it's, it's crazy, it's fun, that's, everybody is so positive. And you're out there, just pull in the last folks over the line and you know those guys, they're my heroes, people who've been out there so long and battling everything, physically and mentally, all the weather, whatever has been thrown at them over however long, and here they are kind of finishing it out despite all of that I that's why I love this, this kind of sport. I think it's very unique and, yeah, I think you're definitely along the right lines there, for sure, do you? We talked, we touched on, like ultra community, to write it. Have you been able to find a trail community for once, a better term up in? Is it Norfolk? I gotta get these names right because I'm from. It's Norfolk, because that's a place in England. Right, I assume that happens a lot, but is it Norfolk? Is that how you say it, norfolk?

Kelli: 44:37

and it's. It's the, the old thing where it was supposed to be. Norfolk originally spelled out that way, and the United States Postal Service thought that it was a misspelling and that we were naming it after Norfolk, virginia. So they changed it, but locals have just continued calling it Norfolk ever since.

Richard: 45:01

See, I'm learning all sorts here how to speak, nebraska Very good. So yes, did you? We lucky enough to find a trail community up there, is there a bunch of folks knocking around that you can hang out with, go run.

Kelli: 45:18

We have a run club but it's not really a trail club so much and I typically they run on Tuesday evenings. The way that my schedule is set up, I do telehealth for all of my clients and I have one that's always at the same time on Tuesday evenings as the run club. So I haven't been able to go this week or this year, but they would. We would typically run the first few miles of the Cowboy Trail.

Richard: 45:45

Oh right.

Kelli: 45:46

But there's just not a lot of opportunity for true trail running, anything that's technical. The running joke with my family is when it gets closer to the sticks to train for it. I'm just gonna go out to my dad's pasture and run around aimlessly for a couple hours.

Richard: 46:07

Yeah, that seems like a legitimate training strategy to me. Yeah, Find a field and go, go around it as many times as you can, for as long as you can. I know people that do that here too. Same kind of thing. Just, I'm just gonna run in a circle until I stop. Yeah, legitimate training. So I think you said in passing that you are signed up again for the sticks this year. Well, this coming year, I guess 24. So is that your only race in 24 so far? Do you plan on doing anything more? Are you pushing the 50K limits? Where are you at for 2024?

Kelli: 46:49

Right now I am signed up for Runs With Scissors. That is up by Boulder at the end of April.

Richard: 46:58

Runs With Scissors is that what you said? Okay, that's a weird title and I love it.

Kelli: 47:05

It's another loop and it is even more ridiculous it is a 1.31 mile loop.

Richard: 47:12

Right.

Kelli: 47:14

And they have a half, a full marathon each and then they call it a 50-ish K because you end up being a little bit over with the way that it's set up, but it's a loop like that. Again, it's a very inexpensive race, so I mean that could be a good one for a lot of people that are limited on funds. I think right now the entry fee for the 50K is somewhere around $80.

Richard: 47:39

Oh yeah, that's pretty good.

Kelli: 47:42

It's yeah, but I mean the cost there is. You're at elevation, so that one I'm running with a couple of my friends and then I'm doing the sticks again. My boyfriend, Jeremy, is going to be. He calls it party pacing I like it. Just having fun. He's known for running in a speedo.

Announcer: 48:06

Ooh.

Kelli: 48:10

So the plan, I guess, is he's gonna bring a speedo and run in that for a while. There was a joke with at the last aid station. Casey's parents run that aid station at Woodlake. And when he had come in through that and he had one of the burgers there. He looked at Casey's mom and said can I take you home with me Just to cook me burgers and brats? Like I would gladly do that. And she made a joke about like she needs a pool boy or something like that.

Richard: 48:42

Oh yeah.

Kelli: 48:43

That's I think that's part of his plan is to bring a speedo to be the pool boy for that. But my goal, my moonshot goal I call it is to get 150 miles this year.

Richard: 48:57

Oh, wow.

Kelli: 48:58

So that'll be almost doubling what I had done last year.

Richard: 49:02

Same 72 hours. Is there, a longer is it, 72 is the longest.

Kelli: 49:06

Yep. Okay yeah, so 150 miles.

Richard: 49:09

Yeah, was that two miles an hour? Just over two miles an hour after, yeah yep. That's good.

Kelli: 49:16

And I'm planning not to sleep so much. So this year, in 2023, I slept probably six to eight hours each night, and I'm planning to run through the nights more this year. We'll see how that goes. I'm pretty good at being without sleep. As somebody with insomnia, there are very many days where I only get two to four hours of sleep regularly. So we'll see. We'll see how it goes, and then I'm planning to run Yippee-ki-yay again next fall, because that's just one of those races that I really enjoy. They have they don't hand up buckles for the 50K distance there, but they have all of their medals are made of wood and it has the windmill on it as well.

Richard: 50:01

I love a wooden medal. I think I have one, but I would love to get more. I think those are so cool like an embossed wood kind of medal, medal, medal, yes, correct. And I wanted to ask too and I don't think I touched on it before, maybe for this year, when you go run a race like the sticks, like what was your setup? Did you bring a tent? Were you pitched at the start, finish line? Or how did you manage your sleep that you were talking about?

Kelli: 50:29

My friend, emily, had brought a tent and we had an air mattress and I slept on the air mattress the first night and it was awful, it just was not a good night of sleep. And then I had, you know, I had most of my stuff set up there. I had extra clothes, I had my shoes, I had my. I was really well organized in it. I had a bunch of different totes. I had one tote that was all shirts, one tote that was all you know pants or shorts, one tote that was all sports bras or socks or you know whatever. So I could just go to that and say, okay, I need to change this. I know right now, you know, and I had all of my like first aid supplies and sunscreen and things like that kind of in different totes as well. But I went back there occasionally to do those kinds of things. And then when my other friend, heather, had showed up, the one that does a lot of the hiking and mountaineering she, because she does those things she has a set up in her truck where she made kind of a platform. She keeps her supplies underneath it and then she has like a tunnel cover. Then she put just like a two or three inch foam mat and then she sleeps on that a lot of times when she does hiking and mountaineering. So I slept on that the second and third nights and I slept so well on that I don't know if it was just from pure exhaustion.

Richard: 51:59

I'm sure there was some of that, yeah.

Kelli: 52:02

Yes, very much so, but I slept really well on that the second night, so it was a little bit of both.

Richard: 52:10

Brilliant. Well, I know we're kind of running up against time here, but before we close out, I do like to encourage guests that come on the show here to choose a song to add to the free Spotify Choose to End your Playlist we have. Usually it's something that lifts you up, motivates you or just kind of gets your butt wiggling while you're out on the trail. Kelly, did you have a song to share and if so, what is it and why did you pick it?

Kelli: 52:38

So the song I picked is I Wanna Dance with Somebody by Whitney Houston. The reason that I chose that is when I had a coach for one year, kelly Roberts. She's amazing. She has a podcast Run Selfie Repeat. That's really great. But she always says, if you can sing, I wanna dance with somebody. While you're running, you're at the correct pace for an easy run or a long run, so that's kind of my go-to. To make sure that I'm running at that slow enough pace is if I can sing along with that song.

Richard: 53:16

I'm from the 80s and that's a 1987 absolute barnstormer of a song. And I don't know I might take some people off here, but Whitney Houston, for me, best vocalist ever. I don't know she's way up there. If she isn't, she's one of the top. I was struggling to think. When you said Whitney, I was like man, is there anybody better than Whitney Houston? From just pure vocals, she is amazing. I could only come up with maybe Freddie Mercury. I don't know, but he would be my pick for best frontman of all time for sure. But I think maybe Whitney hasn't pegged on just vocals. But there you go. We might start another argument with that. That might be one of those pub or trail arguments that you can get into. Who has the best voice of all time? There you go. Talk about distraction, right? Obviously you need somebody else for that, otherwise it would be a one-sided conversation, I would imagine. But you never know. So yeah, so you're an ambassador for ultraverse supplements. Tell us about ultraverse, where we can find more information and maybe what you can do for us.

Kelli: 54:27

Yes, so ultraverse supplements is the company that Chase and Casey Hammond have as well. They use the Proxima C in all of their races. You had kind of mentioned it before. As someone who is a heavy sweater, it is really difficult for me to make sure that I'm keeping enough salts and enough electrolytes, and what I've noticed when I'm using this is I have absolutely no problem with staying hydrated enough and keeping enough salts. So to me that's a big piece of it and, as you said, there's some calories in it as well For those of us that have a really hard time with keeping calories in, and it doesn't have that kind of weird aftertaste that a lot of electrolytes and those kinds of things can have as well. But they have a few other products as well Ultraversesupplementscom and you can get 10% off if you use my coupon code. It's kellykeli10. Yeah, that can help some of you with getting started with it. I really love the Proxima C. It's been amazing for me when I've been running.

Richard: 55:46

Yeah, I have to say I have no affiliation with the Ultraverse folks at all, but we did use it a lot. Obviously, they use it in all of their races. I used it a whole bunch out at the Cowboy race and one of my friends, agatha she's been using it a whole bunch in races that she and I have participated in since then and it really is good stuff. It's not super sweet, but it's just enough, and it does have quite a few calories in it and it does have a good electrolyte balance on it. So I've always had good experience with it. So, yeah, and I will put that link in the show notes so you can go find out for yourself. So, kelly, thank you again for your time, your insights. Maybe Kelly's story has inspired you to go volunteer or sign up for your first Ultra Race. Definitely, both of us can promise you can do way more than you think you can do and really win or lose. The rewards are definitely worth the effort and something you've just got to go through to understand. Don't forget to subscribe to the show to get notified each time a new episode drops and, of course, follow, share and review, if you so choose, if you are already one of the Endurance Nation out there. Maybe consider helping a friend discover the show. You can find us on social media and at choosetoendshorecom, so be sure to head over there if you have a moment. Until then, run long, run strong and keep choosing to endure.

Announcer: 57:20

Thanks for running with us at the Choose to Endure podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. We had a blast. If you did, make sure to like, rate and review, and we'll be back soon. Keep racking up the miles and the stories and we'll catch you at the next Trailhead. Until then, remember to run long, run strong.