Jackalope Jammin’ w/ Chris Trevino: What it’s All About & Why YOU Should Sign Up!

Well, hello and welcome. So what the heck is Jackalope Jam? You ask what makes this event different from others and why should I consider adding it to the list of my must-do races? Well, we're hopefully going to try to get you the answers to those questions, and maybe more, in today's episode. You are, of course, listening to Choose to Endure the show dedicated to the back-of-the-pack runners, where we share uplifting stories, interviews, gear and training tips specific to the tail-end heroes of the Ultra Universe.

My name's Rich in Gleave. I have been running Ultra's now since 2017 and I've taken on and finished numerous distances, all the way up through 220 miles. Now, as of a couple of weeks ago, and I am unashamedly a member of the back-of-the-pack crew, just like you. Now with me today to talk all things. Jackalope is Mr Chris Trevino. Chris is a local runner here in the Houston area and he has participated in the Jam for the past three years, first one 24 hours and the last two he's been in the 100-hour race, so he has spent some time out at this event and is uniquely positioned to walk us through really what makes this race stand out, what the experience is like and why you should be doing it. Don't go anywhere. We'll be back right after this. Well, hey, chris, welcome to the show. Fantastic to have you on. How are you doing today?

Oh, I'm doing great thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk about the Jackalope Jam. I can't wait. Let's do it.

Yes, sir. Well, I guess we should start at the beginning, really, since that's usually an awesome place to kick things off For those people out there that might not ever have heard Jackalope Jam or might be in some other parts of the country and not come across this race. What is Jackalope Jam? What's the race? First, can we describe what type of race it is and when it's on, and what is the essence of Jackalope Jam?

Yes. So Jackalope Jam is a timed race so they have different times, from six hours all the way up to 100 hours. I think this year was the third year of the 100-hour option. And man, it's the community, I mean, that's what stands out to me the most is the people make the race. It is a.

It used to be one and a half, three quarters of a mile out to a cone that's called the cone of death, because you're going to see this cone over and over, and over and over and you're going to want to kick it, knock it down. You're just tired of seeing this cone because you're going out to it and you're coming back, and you're going out and you're coming back. So the cone of death is famous. People talk about it all the time. People dress up in cone costumes because now it's got a whole image of its own, and so you do that.

Well, this last year a new, not this last year, but not this year, but the year before we had a new race director. So in last year they said you know what? This trail math after all these hours gets kind of difficult with going 1.5 miles every lap, so it's like so he changed it to where it's when you're done. It's a mile out and a mile back makes it really easy to add up to math because you know when you get that ultra brain it's the math is not fun, right.

Well, that sounds a lot easier. A mile out, a mile back, two miles for a loop. Yeah, I'm all for that.

Good change Cal there.

It was, yes, very, very good job with that it also you know you're on the course the whole time like, well, you don't have to be, that's a whole nother story. But most people put all their tents and their setups on the course, so when you get up you can hit the trail right away and get out there and get back. And that's a unique part, because you're always seeing people, the always, every day, all the time, you're gonna have someone with you. I think that's really why I say community, because you're always. It's just like, hey, man, I'm fixing to go out, you wanna go? Okay, and you go do a loop with someone you might not ever, because of your difference in style of running, ever get to spend time with, and I think that's one of the most unique things that I have really enjoyed about this race.

Yeah, absolutely so. You mentioned you've been doing the 100 hour race, which is barely credible in of itself, and this is the second time you've done. Well, this year, at least, was the second time you've done the 100 hour race. So 100 hours out on this course, going, literally going out to the cone, come around the cone and come back and repeat, repeat, repeat for a hundred hours, and that in of itself seems pretty wild. Why do you sign up for the 100 mile race and how did it go? What was your experience this year?

Oh my God. So the sign up has a little backstory to it for me signing up for the 100. So I got into ultras about two years ago, just real quick. I got it about two years ago and I had done a 50 miler and I was looking for something else to do and I had kind of been. You know, lisa Decker lives in my area and we became friends and she was talking about this race and she man it. Just I got the phone call. I was like I got to see what's going on with this.

But 100 hours really scared me, really scared me. I'm like I ain't done much, I'm gonna sign up for 24. Well, I went and signed up for the 24 while I'm in the weather. It rained the whole time I was there. I was soaked the whole time for the 24 hours and during that event this is what got me wanting to sign up for 100. I could see what everybody else was doing. 200 hour group of people looked like they were the cool high school kids having the great time and we're over it. And I'm like I want to be a part of that group. I want to be hanging out with those. They just looked. They were having a blast. It was like and they're doing 100 hours. You know, I'm like I couldn't. I couldn't wrap my head around it, so I just thought that's, that's what I want to do. I want to try that, and so so I did. And then now this being my second year's experience, you think I learned from the first year you didn't learn your lesson.

Yeah, after the first 100 hours you were like no, that's not quite enough. I need another 100 hours doing this out and back.

I need another one, the again, the people you meet and so much to learn out there. I ultimately did 106 miles this year. But man, that's the hundred, that's the hardest you know, that's the farthest I've ever went. But to do it over that long of a distance, I think Jack Loeb doesn't get even in my mind. Me being a new person, I didn't give it the respect it deserves. I'm like oh, 100 hours to do 100 miles, piece of cake, let's go do this. And it pretty much slapped me in my face the first day of how. You thought you this was going to be easy, didn't you? You were not prepared, and there's so many things that went into it that I had no clue what I was doing out there. I just thought I was just going to run as much as I could and I'd be getting the 100 miles buckled pretty quickly and easily. I was very, very naive to that, to be honest, which I really thought that it was going to be a cakewalk.

So for somebody like me who's never done one of these timed races, what was it that? Was that sort of slapped you in the face, to quote you Like what was it about the race? Or what is it about that race that is so challenging?

You need to have really strong mental strength, because I think what this race throw in, that a lot of the races don't, is you can leave. You can say, hey, you know what, I'm going to go to the store. Hey, you know what? Well, town is about 15 to 20 minutes away, so it's not super close. But you can say, hey, I'm going to go. I have an RV.

The first year Well, both years I had my RV there and I'm like I'm going to go sleep in an RV. Well, you get comfortable and you said, why do I want to go back on that trail? It's cold out there, it's hot, whatever is going on. So that little thing in back of your head, I know, when you're in a longer race and you're like you're on the course until it's over, you're up against the clock. Well, this one you're up against the clock, but it is so long. You start doing a whole different kind of math of well, yeah, I could sleep for 10 hours or I could do the. It's almost like it's harder to. For me, it was harder to stay on the course knowing I could be off the course. That was my biggest challenge, I think, and it was the mental part of. I wanted to be comfortable. I didn't like being uncomfortable, and of course that's the sport of ultra. You got to learn how to be uncomfortable.

Yeah, for sure, if you've got your RV there or if you've got your tent or whatever.

However, like your car, if you're sleeping in your car, it seems like it would be really easy and tempting to just jump inside and take a couple of hours or hang around at the I assume, the one and only aid station at the start and finish chatting with people. Yeah, it seems a lot more difficult to keep going, like the mental discipline to keep running in amongst all of that and you know you're talking, I think, and maybe we'll talk later, but it seems like there's a lot of fun around this event too while it's happening. So, just the discipline you need to keep going if you're trying to sort of make a goal or find a buckle or do something different. I think is it's pretty interesting on this one and I don't know that I had really considered it from that angle I'm like you. I'd be like what I'm just going to run and and it's really insidious that you don't have to run and that little thing in your head saying, oh, you can go stay in your car for an hour, and that's one hour out of 100.

Who cares?

Yeah, who will big deal? All right.

Big deal over and over again, yeah. So how did your 100 go? This go around? You said you made 106 miles, which is awesome. Was that your goal? Was your goal to go over 100, or what was your goal? Was that it? And how did the race unfold?

On the first day. There was something unique this year that I like to make a short petition for to the race director. And what happened was the first day was Valentine's Day this year and I'm out here running a race on Valentine's Day. You know, I don't know. Maybe he should scoot this back a little bit because my wife, my wife, was very supportive. I love my wife very supportive. She supports all these crazy endeavors Like she actually is. My biggest number one supporter is in motivating and letting me be off and do all these crazy things I love to do, and Jackalob is, you know, my favorite.

I did buy an Apple watch the day before to kind of hopefully it would make up for me not being there on Valentine's Day while I was racing. And Cal, if you're listening, hey, when we tell our significant others that we love them more than running, it's hard to really put that into context when we're actually at a race on Valentine's Day. So it's hard for them to believe us. So please help, help us out and maybe just scoot it a little bit. Maybe the next week. I think my 24 hour year was the week before, so Maybe that messes with his whole weather thing, making sure he gets the worst weather, I don't know. But being on Valentine's Day was very difficult. I did end up. I had a red bucky shirt that I left for my wife with Valentine's and I wore a red bucky shirt Just as in, so we could kind of be together in that way, which was a kind of a cool thing I got to do for the first day. But you know, that's my pitch to cow is hopefully. I don't know if it'll go anywhere, but who knows? So Funny, funny thing. So when you first get there so it's usually a big group of people to get their first set up and this is my first year being in that cool group.

Last year I did the hundred but I didn't. I was kind of in the group but not really. It was still kind of fresh at it. I'm really kind of shy, I'm an extrovert, but it was weird because I was kind of shy, I didn't want to. You know I knew Lisa, but I didn't know her really really well. So I kind of, and I Tommy was there, another, another friend of mine that you you know as well, and he was there. So I know these people this time more than I did the first year, but I still kind of felt timid, to kind of like be hanging out with them all the time. So I just started meeting all these people. So this year because I heard Since I heard before each jackalob to a hundred hours, people usually go and do a dinner before. So this year I got to be a part of the dinner, I got to go to the dinner. We went to a Mexican restaurant. Like we set all our tents up and then we left.

So this is participant driven. This is not the race putting on a dinner. This is just you guys who show up the day before you. You guys all decided to go out to dinner together.

Yes, yes, and they had done that every year and I had heard about it again, the cool kids and so I would have been wanting, and I, I kept on telling Lisa, hey. I said, hey, when's that dinner? Well, let's get it together. So got it together, we went there's about five of us that went out there and we had dinner and Mexican. And then somebody said, oh, we're gonna have margaritas. And so they had some margaritas. So I said, oh, I'm gonna have a beer. So you know, I had a beer. And then I said, are y'all getting another one? And that, well, we might. So I got another one.

And so this is the day before and I am not a big drinker. So here I am a little tipsy the night before I'm supposed to start this journey, and so then we start, we start talking about races, we're gonna do, and our goals and everything. So my original goal was I told Steph she was someone who was with us at the dinner and I told her I said I think I want to run the first 24 without stopping. That's my first goal, that's my. I want to go 24 hours without stopping. Yeah, that's what I want to do. And she says that's similar to what I want to do. Maybe I want to do 36.

I was like, hmm, I don't think I could do that said, but I want to try that. Yeah, I do something different. I said my mileage. I said maybe 150. Well, so then we on the way back I'm a little tipsy. I told him I have to use the restroom really bad. So the way back they dropped me off by the restroom and I go in. It's a funny story because we get there, I jump into the, jump out the car real quick, use the restroom. I come back and I'm just, you know, I'm all excited, having a good time, I'm just having fun and the the porta potty was kind of unlevel. So while I'm in there it's kind of going Whoo, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Oh no it was doing this, you know, while I'm using the restroom. And when I told him, I said something's up at that restroom and that anything fix it. It's just going whoa. So guess what, every time somebody saw me during the race, that was there my calling card Whoo.

Very cool, that's your trail name, your jackalope jam name, I guess.

Yeah, that's my trail name now. So so, to answer the question though, my goal was originally 150 miles. That was my goal last year, that's my goal this year. And then, after about 13 or so hours, I looked at Stephanie. She looked at me. I say, you know, I don't know about this. 24 hours they. And she goes yeah, I don't know me, and that's how quickly it gets to you like it really not. Not. This was day one. Just X amount of hours into it and we was already. You know, already it was really. It was kind of warm, that the first day. It was kind of warm and it was really.

And you go out. You always try to go out slow, but for some reason I'm just that guy that sometimes I just go out too, too hard. In the beginning I know I should just kind of lay back and take it easy and kind of work my way into it, but I wear myself out again and and then what happened for me is I start I'm so Extroverted and I love talking to people. I'm talking to people having a good time. I forget to eat, I forget to drink, I I'm so worried about having a good time. That's why I'm trying to find my balance in my ultra career. Basically, you know, if you want to call, the career is yeah, I want to have fun.

Yeah and sometimes that overtakes my competition, like my goals, and they, they, they, they, they start doing this headbutton thing where, oh, you're not having fun, chris, if you're worried about all these miles and all these things, how you gonna have fun that? So I'm really trying to get that Right. So that was the first obstacle was for me to grind it out and Not focus so much on the fun. So that that was Really my struggle of the first of the first day. The first day, I think, I ended up with like 28 or something miles and then, oh man, I forgot my plan. My original plan I gotta go kind of backwards here was to camp on the on the course. Yeah, to camp with a canopy on the course. So because I knew last year going to the RV so much I really hurt me. So I said, oh, I got that fixed. I bought a tent from somebody to have one. I open up this tent. The roof is not there the roof was not there.

The roof, the canopy that goes on top the frame was there, took it out. The thing there's no, there's no roof. So that, totally. That changed everything. The RV was still there because my friend Katie was using it and I have some stuff in there. But I didn't want to use the RV because it was my arch nemesis the year before too comfy.

And I wanted to be on the course. I just felt like I would be more, I would get more done on the course, because at some points you're on, you're out there, you can't go. You only go one way. You wake up out of your tent. You can't go opposite to the, you have to go the long way, go check with the thing and come back, you know. So it kind of forces you to do more and sort of a sense. So I I just thought, well, I guess I'm gonna be an RV first. I at least I had some space. I set up a chair there, but I didn't think I could sleep there. Her tents really small, so the only one person can sleep in there. So I said, oh, I guess I'm gonna have to sleep in RV when it's time to sleep, and so that really. So you see, already in the first day, I mean what, even the race heading started and I was already mentally, I had a plan and it already went to crack. Yeah, so now I'm trying to read.

So I'm curious to you said you know Lisa, who's been on the show as well, she was down there Setting up a tent and you said they were along the course. So can you paint that picture? Like when you say along the course you actually mean, I think, right there on the start, finish shoot. You can say you're a tent or your what, your pop-up or whatever it is you're doing. You can go right along the actual start, finish, shoot.

Correct. So you drive on the trail, the trails like a road. So imagine you're driving down a road and on the right side there could be a canopy with All your supplies and you'd like an aid station, type your own personal aid, like people set up at normal trail races, like it's a start finish. It's like a start finish line Area, but it's where you're gonna say you can park your car there, but you're not gonna.

If you park your car, you can't move it yeah once the race starts, so you can park your car on the course. A tent canopy, whatever you want. You can put it right there on the course of your passing back. In every loop you do You're passing by it. So it's it's like a, it's like a tent city. You know, I know people are familiar with tent cities that you see, it's kind of like that. But it's a and it's light, it's music, it's just whatever you want to do in your area. That's what it is. And you know Lisa's famous for having the fireballs at her tent. So it's everything. It's everything. And then everybody shares their like I'd have a lot of goodies and everybody has like their own aid station. It's like, hey, free for all, and so if you need something, come get it, I can help you.

That's rich, really nice and I would imagine you guys in the hundred hour race, since you're so, I think, the hundred hour. Right, you're there first. Yes and you're also there after all. The other races have finished. So you guys span the entirety of the long weekend and see everybody else both start and finish Time-wise, and then you've got a little bit. I think there's like a what is it four or five hours after the?

Yes, yes from nine to one.

So you guys start alone and finish alone. So I would imagine you guys get the prime Spots right up front on the trailer right and others are in a field or somewhere close by, but but yes.

Yeah, it's pretty, it's got a lot of space. So it's, it's pretty. There's. I will. I'll be hard to To say there's not a, not a bad spot. You know, like there's a lot of. We do get the ones that are right up Close, but now with the change of the course, it really added a whole nother dynamic. Now the course passes by where the RVs are, so you could literally Step, because before I had to walk you, you know, quarter mile to my rv and a quarter mile back. It felt like it might not been that actual far, but every time I went to it and now it's basically right off the course. Is this really nice, the way they got it now, and yet it's? It's a lot of space out there.

Yes, super comfy if you want to just jump in on your way out or back right, that's really nasty. I think that's that's mental, mental challenge. One on one right there, just trying to avoid that for a hundred hours, where long as you can. I think that's the whole aspect of this, of this genre of racing I think particularly jackalope, though, because I don't know if other races have Much in the way of that but yeah, I think that's one of the things for me that makes jackalope different that the amount of, on course, camping and availability to jump on it in and out of your own camping area, whatever, whatever you have set up, I think is really Difficult mental challenge that somebody like me you not doing, not doing this before might not anticipate.

Going in, correct? Yeah, really cool though. So and I think you talked about this a little bit before with the cone and I'm safe, I think lisa was talking about what was the fancy dress, our something like that. So what are the things that really stand out, aside from the ability to jump in your rv at any given time? What, what, what makes jackalope stand out, even among time and race it?

yes, I out. There's so many unique things. I have a couple of stories that I can tell them, not super long, and you gotta catch me if I my story sometimes like trees, every bunch of leaves and a bunch of branches. Sometimes the branch goes way off course. Catch me doing that, just pull me back real quick. So we got, I tell, the first year, how met lisa. I was volunteering before I did my 24 hours and she posted a video on on tiktok or something. It was like ABC it's, it's I don't know the exact song, but she and that's how I met her. I was like, hey, you're kind of famous, you had that famous rap song. You just and she was just talking about the course, right, and how it's just, mind is just getting you the wind, the weather is this, is that? So that's how I had met her. So there's one thing that really I like this year I have to be a big part of the really enjoyed was.

Everybody goes together. We tell everybody knows what everybody's doing. So it's like, hey, this is my 100k loop. So then it's a party, everybody gets a beverage, whatever it is where you you can get a beverage, you can be a coke, you can be a beer. A lot of people choose beer fireball and we go together so we celebrate each person's you know milestone as they go each 100k, then it's the 100 mile you know, just like Each person. So we're a group of us going out and going around together and that's really something special about it. There are some also some crazy, some crazy things, like last year. The Rutgers. They're rocking. I mean, they're carrying 2030 pounds every time. When they got to that cone they did five push ups.

Oh man we had people doing like I think tommy did 100 miles plus five push ups every with their, with their back on, with their way to the man, this crazy stuff like that.

And I met a young man who said at the course record last year and with like 283 miles, super humble, nice guy, nick. He was towards the end of the race just having a good time. Everybody knows them. I mean, usually when the leader, this lead and lead in a race, only a few people ever gonna see him. Right, they get on the front, they're done. We're all, from the last person to the first person, spending time with this guy and hanging out them having a good time.

He actually did two things that I will never forget. One was towards the end of the race. He's like somebody dared him to run a lap with the weight at best. So he puts on this weight at best and runs a lap and I'm probably like a seven minute mile or something. It was. Just, it was, it was, and he's probably over 200 miles into this and he does and he does that. So that was kind of a cool thing. Then Another local runner, regina, came to the race. She wasn't in the race or anything. She's coming to support someone, I believe, and they're like, they know she's pretty speedy. They're like hey, and he's 250 something. Might, this might be the last day, hey race them. Oh, so they had a race and nick actually won the race with the only had a X amount of yeah with the best.

So it was just. There's things that, these hundred ideas that come up for every year there's some new idea, hey, let's, let's do this or let's do that, and it's just. There's always something crazy with the hundred miles of thinking of. And, as you mentioned, at nine o'clock on Sunday, the last day when everybody else is gone, there's a hundred miles from the year one started it tradition. Where it's a, it's a, it's a, they're gonna do a beer loop. Everybody grabs a beverage and they're all together, all everyone gets together and they do one loop. Nine o'clock, loop together at, everybody leaves, kinda just Messing around in the latin. This last couple years, to the least two years, I've been at it. I don't have in the first year but there's an obstacle course. So at seven I L ran for. This is at. It's a horse ranch and they have to where they train horses to jump over this oh yeah jump on it.

There's like an obstacle course for the horses. Well, the runners will get out on course and start doing the obstacle course, and there there's always, and it's it's fun, like you know, to get out there. I done it, I done a little bit of it last year, and they have this like a barn saloon where you go through these doors and they always have these pictures where it's all coming through these doors and it's like a saloon. So Is that's one of the things that's really kind of fun. It's just so. It's so fun being out there, you know, being with everybody, having a good time and of course, that's me I like having a good time and then you get in and make some goals as well, but that's. Those are a couple of the new things I can think about.

That sounds incredible. Yeah, I mean totally different to anything else I would have done rate race wise, I think. Now you mentioned In passing, the weather. I think the, as far as I know, seven I L ranch. I've been out there once or twice. It's pretty exposed out there. Yes, does, it does and I think, the rich. So jackalope is what I'm gonna say. End of February, something like that time frame wise.

The middle of middle of February normally, yeah so I mean, is it, is it cold out there? I mean, it, does the weather impact what you're doing? I mean, I imagine it's a yes, it's, we're in Texas, but I You're in central Texas over there and I would think it's pretty chilly while you're doing this. Is that, is that fair or no?

It is very fair. And the fair thing is it's like anything in Texas. Everybody says if you come to Texas and you live here and you know the weather well, if you don't like it, wait till tomorrow and it'll be different. Because that's exactly that's exactly what happens to jackalope. So this year, super hot the first day, we're sweating, having a hard time, and then day three we're all bundled up because it's freezing, and then the winds blowing like 30 miles an hour and then it's. It's a it's a thing weather roller coaster.

This year, just like last year, windstorm came through and tore up a couple canopies. My canopy was a victim the first year. I did the hundred and several of them flying all over the place because windstorms came. It rained. It didn't rain as much this year as it did last year, it just rained Like a bad. Bad storm was really terrible. That's when I was happy at RV, but it was a bad storm, storm out there.

But the weather is very unpredictable. You get it seems like I don't know. I think the race director picked this week on purpose. Like he knows, this is the week where the weather is going to give you the most challenge. We want them to experience, or and some people may say, training for another you could train for any race there, because you're going to get the cold. We were in the 30s one night, then we were in the 80s one day and we got wind and we got rain, you name it, we had it and that. That. That can be somewhat. You got to pack everything you know. If you didn't, then you could be in a whole, nother hurt.

Unfortunately, you're only ever what now, two miles away from coming to your set up and adding a layer or taking off a layer, I guess, but yeah, very challenging for sure. So when you're out there, chris, for you specifically, you're out going around the cone of death and doing your push-ups and coming back, how do you stay motivated when you're like that, because that's some really challenging mental stuff going on right there. I mean that's difficult. What did you do for motivation?

Yeah, for me, I have a bad habit of being really good when I have people to talk to and just talking about life and learning. I love people, I love seeing them succeed, and so that really keeps me motivated. Talking to other people, hearing about what they got going on in their life and a lot of times it's trial therapy out there and that's really a love language of mine that really keeps me motivated. But then you get into the dark place and then I don't talk. I don't say it because I got a blister, my feet are killing me, I don't want to be out here, the RV's right there, I can just go back. And so then when I start getting to that point, it's really I like to lean into music a little bit sometimes, and for me I just have to.

I remember at a tough time in my life I was divorced about eight years ago, and that's what got me into running actually and about six months before that my dad passed away, and so when that happened my life changed, and during that process, going through the divorce right after my dad, just all this was all that was in it. It felt like a year or two altogether it felt like. Now it feels like all it was all happening at the same time. And when it did, some friends invited me to church and I never went to church really in my life and it wasn't a thing that I did. And you know, long story short, I don't want to give a sermon, but God found me at that point and so when he found a broken person, as broken as I was at that time in my life, when I'm in this race and I get to that low point, I just try to remember that and I kind of I'll put on some worship music and I'll listen to that and remind myself, if I made it through that trench in my life, that this few miles or this little bitty blister or whatever it is, it's nothing. You know like, hey, this is nothing, chris, you got to keep pushing.

I probably don't dig deep enough because that's what I'm still learning. I believe I still still a learning process, but I really my faith usually pulls me, at least starts to get me getting in the right direction, getting my mind right. You know, because we all know it's mental. I used to think because I, you know, had a rough upbringing as a child. You know nothing crazy, but just like you know, it wasn't financially great and all those kind of things. So I'm like you know. I thought because I was a blue collar worker growing up and my dad was blue collar that oh, I'm tough, I'll do ultras, that'll be easy. I get a tough spot. I'll just remember how tough I am. It's, it's, it's. This is way tougher than just having a tough childhood.

Yeah, it's difficult out there, that's that's for sure. Now we talked about some of your challenges and just generally the difficulties, I guess, of doing a timed race, especially when your camp is so close by. But let's flip the script just a little bit. From your 200 hours and maybe even the 24 hour, because that's nothing to nothing to sneeze at either Are there any moments that really stand out for you, that are kind of moments you look back on with pride or you know, with great joy on on those moments like hey, I managed to do this, or I was really pleased with whatever it was.

Do you know, is there any sort of prideful moments from the past couple of years?

Yeah, the one, actually the one that comes to mind first, is probably from the, probably from the 24 hours, because I'm brand new. I think I can give the perspective of someone brand new coming into the sport because I've only been doing ultras for a couple of years and at that point I was really, really new. And so I remember getting back from I had done straight 30, like 30 miles and it was raining the whole time Terrible rain. I did not have a. The jacket I had I thought was waterproof, was not waterproof.

Oh man, that sucks yeah, that's terrible yeah.

And my men and I. You know, I listened to a lot of David Gawings. I was like who cares, I'm just going to run through it, you know. And my mindset was just different at that time. It was just like just go, just go, just go. So I just kept on going, going, going.

Well, my wife and her sister meet me at the tent at one of my breaks, and they're like how many miles you had? And I think I was like at 20 something. She goes, oh, she goes. Have you changed? This was so terrible. Out there it's raining and the wind's blowing straight. And because it was literally the rain was blowing in my eyes like straight, like this. That's how hard the wind was blowing with the rain. And she was like you got to be, how good is that jacket? So she says, well, just change your clothes, you'll probably feel a little bit better. And so she, okay, fine, I take off my clothes, like, and I, when I take them off and I hold it, I'm like, holy moly, this clothes are wet, I was drenched and I didn't really wasn't thinking about it. So put on dry clothes. I finished.

Well, the end of the night, at the end of I started getting really. You know just, I'm at about 34, 33, whatever miles I was at, and another son-in-law showed up to help me. He brought some dry stuff. I had brought me some socks, some other stuff. When he got there I really just got kind of in a low and it's the first time I had been in something like this, because this is again it's a 24 hour time race, but I have plenty of time. It's like 10 o'clock at night, you know, and I'm oh, I got, I didn't have, I didn't really set a goal that time. I just thought I was going to go the whole time. And then I really got in my head and I was like I'm not, I'm not going to, I'm done, I don't want to do anything, I want to go to sleep. So he let me go to sleep. I went to change and dry stuff, went to sleep. But I remember I was right across the right. My tent was right across from the start line. So the noise was all the music and everything. I could hear it all night.

When I woke up in the morning, this was the proud moment. I thought I had never done this in my life. I thought, well, I just ran and my legs were so sore, you know, you know how you get them tired. I'm just like I could barely move getting out of cramped up. I could barely get out this off this cot. I was just having a hard time moving. But then I looked out the window and I see people going back and forth and I'm like, well, if they can do it, I wonder if I got anything left. I wonder if I could do any more, and that I was really proud that I got dressed and told them, hey, I know I only have a couple hours left before the 25 is up, but I'm going to go see if I can do, if I can get out there and do something to anything Brilliant. And so that was a really proud moment.

I got up and got my butt out and really went out there and did some more and so and I didn't, you know, I only did a couple of races before that and when I was done running, I was done for three days. And now here I was, get up in the morning and get back out there and start moving. And the crazy thing was, after you start moving it's almost like, oh, your body wakes up and says, oh, yeah, you're good to go. Too bad. You didn't sign up for 48 because you got some more than that left in you, so I kind of left there. That's probably what a little bit itched my brain like, wow, I could do more, and so that was a pretty proud moment.

It's funny how that happens, isn't it? I mean, that's definitely happened to me in races before too. You know long races where you start walking after a break and you think, god, my legs are so, so tight. There's no, I'm going to have to walk this whole thing from here and it's going to take forever. But I've learned to sort of at least try to run, because you never know, to your point, once your body kind of gets back into the swing of at least walking and you might okay, I'm going to try a short shuffly jog and then, lo and behold, you're able to do a shuffly jog and you're like, oh, I might be able to do that for just a shade bit longer, you know, and before you know it you can run, walk again and suddenly you're off and going.

But I think a lot of people I don't know if I would call it a mistake, but I think a lot of people kind of feel that pain and just sort of stop and don't try to run again. And I think you're right in that. Right, there's definitely something there your body adapts, and once you try to run again, all right, you're not running a maybe an eight or nine or 10 minute mile, but you can still move and really any kind of jogging movement coupled with walking is going to boost your speed way up there. So, yeah, I think that's right for sure. So, from all of your jackalope experiences, are there any takeaways that you learned about yourself that you're like, yeah, I'm definitely wanting, or looking, or maybe you already have brought that into races that you're going to run or have run since you started doing jackalope? What did you learn about yourself from jackalope that you can translate into future running?

Yeah. So with this, you know again I didn't give jackalope the credit and deserved either year and this year was even more that I want to do longer races, like with shorter times. But I but I really am starting to figure out from doing jackalope is really I think it really can help you figure out where you want to go next. Like, what do I want to do? Do I just want to do these timed races and have a good time and also meet a goal because a good balance or a lot of people have treated these races like like we have three people that I know offhand Tommy, nick and, I think, andrew all use this for training for them to all complete coca-dona. They and they all did over 200 miles because you can practice what you would do yes, not the exact terrain, but you can practice the nutrition, the staying on the course, the, do you know, doing the mountain. They all did 200 miles and they all completed coca-dona, because coca-dona is a few months from now, right, yeah, and so that's, that's very similar to what I had planned.

Now it kind of fails through for me because I signed up for coca-dona but then I pulled back, I wasn't training right or whatever, but so maybe next year. But it has has really taught me that I want to use these timed races to build my mental strength so I can do longer races. Because if I can do, if I go this time race, and let's say it's a, so I'm signing up for one, is called the sticks, it's a 72 hour and it's it's at the end of May, I don't remember. I don't remember exactly. I know it's up north a little bit, but I'm signing up for that, that's ultraverse right, that's chasing Casey ultraverse the sticks.

Yeah, maybe yes, yes, yes.

Yes, yes, correct, kansas somewhere around there.

Yes, yes, yeah, I'm a friend of mine, katie signed up for when my friends sign up for things, I'm always like, hey, that sounds interesting. And so at first I was going to do possums. But then I really just thought, man, I want to do, I want to get this time, because my mental I'm not there yet. Like a lot of people say, oh, aim big and if you don't reach it, but I kind of want to use this as a progression If I can do 100 miles and 72 hours, I'm making some progress, you know. And then there's snow drop. Oh, yeah.

I'm going to be on a relay team that one's 55 hours. If I can do 100 hours and 50, 100 miles and 55 hours, so I can start building towards, you know, actually doing 100 out, 100 mile race in a regular you know straight through and this these times races are really going to, it really can help you fine tune all those things. That's really what I think it helped, especially me, what's helped me being a beginner. I wish I would have tackled this right away from the beginning because I met a guy who had this year he had only things Ralf, he had only done a half marathon, he did 100 miles.

Oh, wow.

And he hated it. Because I walked with him, he hated it. He was like this is terrible. I don't know why I'm doing it. But once I started doing it I was like, well, I might as well keep going. Well, you're here for Ford, I already paid. I'm here for four days. I might as well keep going, because I got talked into this. He goes I like rock climbing, I like to climb on rocks. I don't even like running, I don't. And at the end of it I told him anything, you're gonna do it again, because he was saying no the whole time. At the end he said man, I might have to do, I might have to do something like this again. It just captures you, it. I don't know what it does to you, but it gets in, it gets in there and it's like that. I believe all the people around and how much supportive is You're passing everybody every hey, good job. Hey, let's go. Hey, keep going. How you doing? You get to see somebody's face all the time and that's really. It really helps you move.

Yes, well, I'm really glad you're signing up for the sticks. There's a friends of mine up there chasing Casey who run that and they run an excellent race as well. So hopefully you can bring, and maybe even Katie too, if she's going, you guys can bring. She is like a flavor of Jackalope up to up to the sticks and kind of bring some of that. I'm sure they would love that if they're listening.

Yeah, look for those Is there a crazy bunch out there, because Katie talked.

Yes, katie talked me into it. I didn't take much to talk me into things, obviously, but she talked me into it and then then I didn't want to do it. Then I did want to do it I'm very un-overthinker, is what I am mostly and so she told me the reason she won't do it. She goes it's a very similar community to Jackalope. She says what she's heard is really tight, because one of her friends had told her about it. So it was like I think that person had done Jackalope before as well. I don't remember the name on top of my head, but so, yeah, maybe I don't know if there's a cone out there and not, but uh, I don't know if they have a cone, but I think you guys should find one or put a stick in the ground or something you know like Bring a steak?

I'm not sure. Yeah, um, so, chris, you touched a little bit on the community there just just as you were talking. Yeah, how much? How much does that play a part? The community of the race and then also support crew Did a lot of people have an actual crew with them or were most people doing Jackalope kind of solo with their own tent? And for those folks that did have a support crew and I'm not sure if I think you mentioned Maybe one year you might have, or all three years, maybe you guys have gone down but what kind of impact does having a support crew on a race like this have versus Perhaps a standard ultra race where you know they're meeting you every 10 miles or whatever down down the road, right, you know? Is it different and did it help or hinder you if you, you or other Folks in the race had a crew? Do you feel like it helped or hindered?

I would say that for this particular race and I'm not sure if it's the same at all-time races this is only what I've done is that most people don't have a crew because we are each other's crew. Yeah, if that makes any sense at all, we are. We really team up and we talk about this months before. We already talking about now, we all sign up next year most of the crew and more people we've been recruited in to do it again, and so we're kind of like each other's crew. Now there's usually some people that come help set up. Like I know, lisa had. Her dad came and even though I said hey, I got it, I can help. He loves to come to the event, so he came and helped her set up.

I met a young lady named Misty. Her husband came help set up. For the most part people don't have it's. We're using each other. You know there's usually a group of people. Even the guy that I said that didn't run but a half marathon, he had two other friends that were there that they all got kind of talked. One guy wanted to do it. He invited his two friends, so they're all together. So it's really the community is actually your crew. For the most part it's a hundred hours, it's five days that you're out there, so it's kind of hard for, I guess, for most people to take off. I know Steph, her husband, her husband she has, I believe, four Kids and and she watches them and husband has to take on the duty while she's out there, you know. So she comes prepared with everything that she needs. So mostly like self-supported I would say most of self-supported I can't remember anybody Having someone there the whole time at all you know.

I may have to go look it up too, but but do you recall whether many out of status or is this Jackalope kind of pretty much folks in and around Texas?

Mostly Texas. But when he gets into the other distances I will say I've seen quite a few People from other states, but most of the most of the people I believe are from from Texas.

Well, we do have to answer, chris. We hopefully we've convinced somebody out there to go sign up for this, because I think it's a fantastic race and obviously Chris has Done it three times and he wouldn't have done that if he didn't think it was a. It was a fantastic race. But you know, we do have to answer the question, chris. Why would somebody consider adding this to their list of must-do races?

my Answer to that question is you want to add it because you're gonna walk away with a new family? Definitely gonna walk away with a new family of friends and ultra runners. If you're new to it, like I was, I Walked away with 15 best friends. It's something that you, us and interaction with other human beings I think is one of the most important things to have and you share and you share, trust me, you get to we. There's some deep conversations on the trail. When you spend that meant that much time together and you're gonna meet all paces Because you're on this short track. For me that's what it is. You're gonna and I think most of the trail community is this way like they love the community of the people and this. You can't get more communities and hanging out with somebody for a hundred hours, you're your best, your best friends. You know, you know, you know every in and out of bottom after that's over with.

So for me, if you want them, especially if you're, the funny thing that I thought Was I'm at this table with these people before this dinner and I'm gonna talk about extrovert, introvert. I'm extrovert and I and I asked each one of them. They're all introverts. I would have, never have known it. They get out of their comfort zone and they're at this races and I never would have known it. And it's just, it brings something out of you. They, you know. It's just. It's so crazy. If you've never walked more than 13 or ran 33 miles, you could go there and do whatever you want to do. Yeah, you know. And then, when you're with other people, you're gonna go farther. I promise you you're gonna go farther than you ever thought you could. Everybody does there.

They go farther than they ever thought they could maybe that's why Lisa keeps bringing in the fireball right, they get every all those introverts juiced up a bit while they're out on the course. That's why we have the beaters there. I'm sure get everybody going right, get everyone going a little bit.

I think one of I mean, I think you're, you're, you're spot on there I for me one of the really cool things To think about and consider, especially for back of the pack folks that might be listening, like you and I how often do you get to run a race where you're running essentially with the elite people for a Massive, extended period of time? And you were talking about this early and I was like, yeah, that's, that's really unique, that and that's Obviously that's not just jackalope, but but certainly these kind of races Allow you to be in and around elite people for a long time, and I don't think that exists in any other sport. I can't I'm struggling to think of another sport where you get to hang out and participate and and race or do the activity With the elite people and and build a relationship with those individuals and get to know them a little bit and they get to know you. So, yeah, I think you talked about the one.

The one chap was it Nick, you know just as an elite guy, you're able to have this conversation and maybe they remember you after after that.

Yeah, he definitely. Nick was, very Definitely is that guy because he he actually approached me. I won't forget because I know he's a leader, he's doing his thing and I'm at the cooler and he goes hey, how you going, how you know doing the hundred hour together. Yeah, we just started chit chatting. We still talk to this day. I mean, they're out there doing a race today, matter of fact, that grasslands 100. But he is, he's been in contact, everybody stays it. Just, my friends group blew up after jackalope. I'll tell you that for sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I'm man. I'm just thinking out loud, but I would love to find a way to go down there and and do the podcast. I should do a podcast episode live during the race. I should sign up for one of the races and then do the podcast live During that would be, that'd be kind of fun. Oh, that would be absolutely.

I think that would really, that would really be fun. You know, I will tell you three, three people that I that are really good friends. I met them at the first jackalope and two of them I only because I saw. I met a young lady, rebecca, and I met Lisa, and I met Katie for a shorter amount of time last year and Katie and Lisa, who I shared the most miles with because we don't live too far from each other, you know and my most Training with, and it's all from Jackalope.

Yeah you know, like all these people from Jackalope, I talked to Rebecca a lot and she actually Shared my 100 mile loop with me. Before I knew there was a celebration hundred mile loop last year. She shared it with me. I'm I wasn't very smart, I took off running, but she actually I took off running. A reason I say it like that is because she goes all do this last loop with you. I said, okay, I let's go. So I went. I didn't want to tell everybody. I was still not feeling like I was part of the group yet, so I didn't tell anybody was my hundred mile or my hundred mile loop, I just went. She heard me so she went with me. Then about halfway through she's like I'm tired, I can't run anymore. So she walked and then when I came back she took a picture.

I use that picture forever as I was and that was my hundred mile loop brilliant picture and then this year To tie it together, she did her first hundred K and she was. The same thing happened. She was coming this time. I didn't forget she was coming back. She goes hey, I'm gonna be doing the hundred K because she was doing the 48 hours she was. I'm about to hit a hundred cast, okay. So she came back around. I stopped and waited. When she got back up, caught up to me, then I finished it with her so we could celebrate together because I Remember she was. She thought about me when it was my turn, so I wanted to make sure I turned that favor and that's that's just part of the Jackalope spirit right there, but we're always thinking about each other brilliant and I think you mentioned while you were out on the trail, you, you like to go down to music.

Now, one of the things we do, chris, is part of the show here that you might you might be aware of if you've listened to any of the episodes. We definitely like to encourage guests to pick a song to add to the free Spotify, choose to enjoy a playlist that's floating around there. Usually it's something to kind of lift you up or motivate or just keep you moving. For exactly that reason, while you're out Doing infinite loops around the cone of death For a hundred hours, that would be a great time to tune in. So we do like to ask yes, chris, did you have a song that you wanted to add and, if so, what was it and why does that song resonate with you?

Well, there's a music is my thing I love. It really talks to me a lot and I Like to use it to to motivate you, get me out of a hole. Sometimes it just I don't know what it is. It seems like going through my life. I can Look at this music. I was going through this and this music. I was going through this and this music. I was going through that.

So during this and I kind of mentioned it earlier a little bit, so I'm gonna kind of repeat some of it a little bit but uh, it's a for me it's worship music and there's this song called Graves to Garden, garden de Graves. I don't know if I'm saying it correctly, which way it goes, because now I'm a little nervous about saying it but uh, it's elevation worship and it just reminds me again that I need to be reminded a lot of times that I'm, that I'm worse, more than I think I am, and then I'm capable of more than I think I am. I think when I dig into that music that it really reminds me of that, that I'm, there's a bigger, something bigger than me, and so it really pulls me out and reminds me of. You know, sometimes we just need a reminder, whatever you choose to be your reminder that you're, you're capable and you're okay, you're okay. Hey, you know this is just a little bitty race. Let me dig me out this hole and and and.

For me that's uplifting because it really is gut-wrenching in my heart, because I know, you know the sin I've committed and I know the bad things I've done in my life and I'm still here and I'm still smiling, I'm still moving forward. So it just reminds me that, hey, just keep on plugging along and let's go for a second. I know you probably don't want to on, but for a second man, any run, dmc man, come on, what run.

DMC. Different ends of a scale, but they're.

I am a very diverse music and but when you put on that old-school rap for me especially, some run DMC I get in a hole. Another that is more of my. I Gotta be careful when I put that on because that's when you know this guy that runs a 13-minute mile might run an 11-minute mile and then it might burn me out. It might burn me out a little bit different music. No, that's for different needs right.

And so I think, chris, you're gonna really like next week's episode cuz I I've, you know, talking to folks in this segment. On each of the interviews we've done on on the show here, people were very much like you just are there, they, I mean, they really feel the music. So I had to sit down and put some thoughts down.

So next week's episode is actually all about music in ultras and using how you can use music Potentially as an active part of your training and race day strategy, above and beyond just sticking on a tune which helps in a moment. But I think music could be a really Important and quite unused tool for your whole strategy. So anyway, next week is all about music, so definitely listen to that one. But I agree, I think you know I like some run DMC. I like you know I like a bit of LL cool J, a little bit of ice cube, some run DMC.

You know, and those I like to tell people those really resonate. When you're listening to ice cube, it doesn't really hit home too much when you're in the, when you're sitting in in in a village, in a field, in Mack, you know, in Macklesfield over there.

Okay, it doesn't quite hit home as hard the messaging, but great tunes, you know? Yes, yes, definitely. Well, chris, thank you so much again for for joining us today and Walking through your stories for us and telling us why you think, and me too, that folks out there should especially back of the pack. Folks Should definitely consider signing up for these types of races. I hope Chris's jackalope stories have encouraged you, listener, to get over to the I think it's trail racing over Texas website and, yes, consider signing up to this like super interesting, really different race experience To some degree. That's still evolving and you get to go and participate in it. You get to become part of that legendary jackalope jam community of individuals, and we say thanks to Chris, but thank you, listener, as well, for spending some time with us today.

Don't forget to subscribe to the show and that way you'll get notified every time a new episode comes out. And, of course, if you choose to do so, follow, share, review and maybe go tell an ultra friend to listen. That way we can get all this knowledge and experience out into the ears of Of other individuals who might find a use for it. Doing any of those things really helps with the algorithms too. You can find us on Instagram. You can find us on Facebook and over at choose to enjoy calm, and now we're also over on YouTube as well, if that's where you listen to things, so be sure to head over to any of those and Check us out. Say hello, tell a friend, drop as a message a topic or some feedback If you have a moment. Really love getting those interactions. So Thanks for sticking with us today. Until next time, run long, run strong and keep choosing to enjoy.

Thanks for running with us at the choose to endure podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. We had a blast. If you did, make sure to like, rate and review, and we'll be back soon. Keep racking up the miles and the stories and we'll catch you at the next trailhead. Until then, remember to run long, run strong.