Aug. 9, 2024

Fueling for the Long Haul: Expert Nutrition Tips for Ultra Runners with Gaby Villa of IntensEATfit

Fueling for the Long Haul: Expert Nutrition Tips for Ultra Runners with Gaby Villa of IntensEATfit
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Season 2

Unlock the secrets to maximizing your endurance performance with expert insights from sports nutritionist and dietitian Gaby Villa of IntensEATfit. Discover how everyday nutrition habits can dramatically enhance your race day outcomes. Learn Gaby's simple yet powerful framework for balancing meals by categorizing foods into energetics, builders, and regulators. With practical advice on quickly assembling balanced meals, you'll find nutrition that fuels your passion for ultra running accessible and effective.

Wondered how to train your gut to handle food intake during grueling races?  Gaby explains the critical importance of gut training and maintaining electrolyte balance. From real food options like sandwiches and boiled potatoes to managing gastrointestinal issues, we cover strategies that ensure your body is well-nourished and hydrated. Our discussion provides essential tips for preventing stomach problems and optimizing hydration through electrolyte management, making your long runs smoother and more enjoyable.

Recovery is just as crucial as the race itself, and we dive deep into the 3 R's of recovery: refuel, repair, and rehydrate. With practical meal suggestions and a focus on the first hour post-run, Gaby guides us through effective recovery strategies. We also explore the broader benefits of a holistic nutrition approach, including transitioning to healthier eating habits and the advantages of a plant-based diet.

Finally, we celebrate the incredible journey of ultra runner Phil Gore, whose structured nutrition plan with Gaby led to a world record backyard ultra distance, proving the profound impact of proper fueling and planning in endurance sports.

IntenseEATfit:
https://www.intenseatfit.com/

Instagram:
@intenseatfit

A free quiz  on the fueling mindset:
https://nutrition-mindset.scoreapp.com/

Choose to Endure:
Website:
https://www.choosetoendure.com/

YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@ChoosetoEndure

Instagram:
https://instagram.com/choose_to_endure?utm_source=qr

Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552757049526

Chapters

00:00 - Nutrition Tips for Ultra Runners

14:09 - Optimal Food and Hydration for Runners

19:24 - Gut Training and Electrolyte Balance

33:32 - Optimal Recovery Nutrition for Runners

45:22 - Holistic Approach to Nutrition for Runners

49:41 - Ultra Running Nutrition Success Story

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:00.341 --> 00:00:01.423
Hello and welcome.

00:00:01.423 --> 00:00:04.532
If this is your first time with us, thank you for stopping by.

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You're listening to Choose to Endure, the show dedicated to the non-elite runners, where we share stories, interviews, gear and training tips specific to the tail-end heroes of the Ultra Universe.

00:00:20.274 --> 00:00:33.341
If you haven't had a moment to do so yet, please consider heading over to your favorite podcast app hit, follow, rate the show and, if you're getting something of value, leave a review and let others know.

00:00:34.203 --> 00:00:35.384
My name is richard gleave.

00:00:35.384 --> 00:00:39.212
I've been running ultras now since 2017.

00:00:39.212 --> 00:00:50.851
I have taken on and finished numerous ultra distances, all the way up through 220 miles, and I am unashamedly a member of the back of the pack, just like you.

00:00:50.851 --> 00:00:54.069
Now let me ask you all a question out there.

00:00:54.069 --> 00:01:01.859
Are you struggling with low energy during your long runs, or perhaps dealing with gut or nutritional issues that disrupt your performance?

00:01:01.859 --> 00:01:05.590
Do you want to learn how to make food your superpower?

00:01:05.590 --> 00:01:11.460
Well, stay tuned to today's episode as we dive into these questions with our guest, gabby Villa.

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Gabby is a sports nutritionist, dietitian and founder of Intense Eat Fit.

00:01:18.474 --> 00:01:26.614
She specializes in optimizing performance for ultra runners by making food their best ally in sport and life.

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Over the past decade, gabby has supported hundreds of athletes, including get this former backyard ultra world record holder, phil Gore, to overcome lack of energy and gut upset so that they can fuel their bodies with confidence and race to their full potential.

00:01:45.492 --> 00:01:56.831
After overcoming her struggles with body image and weight concerns for several years, gabby has witnessed and lived the benefits of seeing food beyond its nutrients.

00:01:56.831 --> 00:02:03.966
Gabby is on a mission to empower people to fuel with purpose while building a happy and strong body.

00:02:03.966 --> 00:02:10.735
She strives to contribute to a world that enables and promotes a healthy and active lifestyle.

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So stick around to learn more about how you can transform your nutrition, enhance your performance and feel more confident in yourself.

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We'll be right back Quicker than a cheetah on Red Bull.

00:02:24.219 --> 00:02:40.169
Discover raw, inspiring stories from runners who've been right where you are, right back quicker than a cheetah on Red Bull.

00:02:43.811 --> 00:02:45.032
Gabby, welcome to the show.

00:02:45.032 --> 00:02:47.332
Really thrilled to have you with us today.

00:02:47.332 --> 00:02:51.716
Thanks for joining us and agreeing to share some of your expertise.

00:02:52.316 --> 00:02:53.556
Oh, thanks for having me, Richard.

00:02:53.556 --> 00:02:55.018
It's such a pleasure to be here.

00:02:55.018 --> 00:02:55.758
I'm very excited.

00:03:01.500 --> 00:03:02.042
Brilliant.

00:03:02.042 --> 00:03:02.985
Now let's jump right in Nutrition.

00:03:02.985 --> 00:03:10.545
It's such an important element to dial in and get right for us as ultra runners so that we can maximize our chances to succeed in whatever race it is we're doing.

00:03:10.545 --> 00:03:12.871
But where should we start?

00:03:12.871 --> 00:03:20.332
What are some of the key nutritional considerations we should look for as endurance athletes right out of the gate?

00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:32.242
Yeah, so normally most people start when they start worrying about their nutrition is, oh, because they have a race coming up and they are like, oh my god, what am I supposed to do for that specific race?

00:03:32.743 --> 00:04:26.980
Often is also, unfortunately, because they had a bad experience at the last race and they want to change that, and even though nutrition is, of course, extremely important for that, my recommendation in terms of the best area to start with is with what you're doing on the daily, specifically, what's happening around training is where you're going to get the biggest benefit if you are deliberate about how you're tackling your nutrition around that and the way.

00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:39.862
Well, first off, when you do your training session, of course, what we want is our body to have some adaptation so that way we can see the benefit of even more successful experience when you go to that event, and that's something that comes hand in hand in terms of planning your nutrition for your race day and also making sure that your race day experience is optimal.

00:04:39.862 --> 00:04:54.927
And, yeah, to me that that would be like the best area to start with in terms of how you are working on your nutrition before, during and after training and, of course, as a partner, it's like even during the whole day.

00:04:54.927 --> 00:04:56.812
It doesn't have to be complicated.

00:04:56.812 --> 00:05:07.141
That's why it probably puts a lot of people off in terms of thinking that well OK, so now I'm supposed to be looking at eating very elaborate meals, or what does this mean?

00:05:07.141 --> 00:05:15.012
And there are very simple things that we can work on to make sure that what you are eating is supporting your body as best as possible.

00:05:15.875 --> 00:05:22.100
Yeah, what would some of those simple things be Like for me, for instance, if I were to go down into the kitchen this evening to make dinner?

00:05:22.100 --> 00:05:24.809
What kind of simple things should I be looking for?

00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:33.451
Yeah, so, for example, one of the things that a lot of the people that work with me love is a framework that I have.

00:05:33.451 --> 00:05:39.648
It's very simple in terms of how you're balancing your bills and the way I like looking at food is also from their function.

00:05:39.648 --> 00:05:57.185
So, for example, carbohydrates and fats they are giving us energy, proteins I call them builders, because they are supporting our muscles and structure function essentially and fruits and vegetables they are giving us vitamins, minerals, fiber, so I call them regulators.

00:05:57.185 --> 00:06:04.653
So, essentially, we have the energetics, which is the carbohydrates, fats, we have the builders and we have the regulators.

00:06:04.653 --> 00:06:11.526
So the best thing that you can do if you're heading into the kitchen is make sure that.

00:06:11.547 --> 00:06:11.788
All right.

00:06:11.788 --> 00:06:13.833
How can I have a nice plate that has all three things?

00:06:13.833 --> 00:06:17.704
So, let's say you didn't cook anything and it's a really last minute thing.

00:06:17.704 --> 00:06:21.362
So, okay, well, I have bread, so I'm going to put some toast there excellent.

00:06:21.362 --> 00:06:28.668
We have the energetic, and maybe I have some ham that I have left over there Okay, perfect, that's some extra, some protein.

00:06:28.668 --> 00:06:29.430
I'll have the meal there.

00:06:29.430 --> 00:06:33.670
I don't love the idea of ham on its own, so I'm going to add some cheese Fantastic.

00:06:33.670 --> 00:06:38.471
And I'm going to chop some tomato as well, because that way is adding that regulator.

00:06:38.471 --> 00:06:41.704
It takes five minutes and it's a complete meal there.

00:06:41.704 --> 00:06:54.108
If you want to get fancier, of course there's the option of cooking and everything, but as long as you're ticking those three boxes, your body will be very grateful in terms of having that nice balance and those extra nutrients.

00:06:54.108 --> 00:06:56.420
That can be very quickly to set up.

00:06:56.781 --> 00:07:04.670
Yeah, I think that's great to sort of make sure you've got each of those elements somehow represented in whatever you're eating in your day-to-day.

00:07:04.670 --> 00:07:16.168
Now most of the listeners to this show are going to be, if I can politely say it, kind of the slower runners, the people towards the back of the pack, not the fast runners at the front.

00:07:16.168 --> 00:07:34.829
When we're out on course, or even maybe before we get on course, how should slower runners manage our energy intake differently from perhaps, the faster runners, considering that, hey, we're going to be out there quite a bit longer than those zoomy folks up front?

00:07:35.593 --> 00:07:36.456
Yeah, definitely.

00:07:36.456 --> 00:07:42.028
So something that is very important to be aware of is the intensity at which you are moving.

00:07:42.028 --> 00:07:47.966
So, even though, let's say, your time is slower, it's likely that your intensity is going to be high anyway.

00:07:47.966 --> 00:07:59.190
For you, like, in terms of how hard you're pushing, depending on that, obviously, that's something that most people can be aware of in terms of like, yeah, I know that I'm pushing really hard, but actually, no, I like taking my time, I like to.

00:07:59.190 --> 00:08:05.651
I don't like the idea of feeling like I'm panting the whole way, so I do take my time, right, like the idea of feeling like I'm panting the whole way, so I do take my time.

00:08:05.651 --> 00:08:15.257
So let's assume that is on, that in that situation, it's like okay, I know that I'm not necessarily it is hard because it's an ultra, it's going to be hard, but let's assume that the intensity is not as high.

00:08:16.259 --> 00:08:22.831
One very, very important thing is to not disregard the value of nutrition, because that's something I see often.

00:08:22.831 --> 00:08:32.610
For example, someone approaches me and they are like oh, I'm not an elite athlete, so I feel like maybe I shouldn't, like I don't need to look at my nutrition, but just thought that maybe you have a tip that I could implement.

00:08:32.610 --> 00:08:37.028
When, in reality, your body is using a lot of energy.

00:08:37.028 --> 00:08:53.461
Your body requires that nutrition to get through and, even though perhaps you're not looking at getting to that podium or top 10 or 20 or whatever finishers, still you want to have an enjoyable experience and nutrition will enable that.

00:08:53.461 --> 00:09:05.773
So, in terms of things to look at, one is that, yes, for example, in terms of the front of the pack, runners, most of them are shifting towards increasing their carbohydrate intake per hour.

00:09:05.773 --> 00:09:24.370
So, looking at beyond 90 grams of carbohydrate per hour For someone who is, let's say, in that I would say, half the back of the pack, it's not as necessary to chase that really high carbohydrate intake, but it's still really important to prioritize carbohydrates.

00:09:24.892 --> 00:09:34.152
The benefit of, let's say, not moving at higher intensity is that we can use carbohydrates that are a little bit more complex.

00:09:34.152 --> 00:09:41.509
Let's say so, for example, for someone who is chasing that high carbohydrate intake, most of what they are going to consume has to be very simple.

00:09:41.509 --> 00:09:52.616
So energy gels, drinks and things like that, in this case in terms of the the back of the pack, let's say, would be probably more easy to consume food.

00:09:52.616 --> 00:10:08.836
So have sandwiches, have bars, have a fruit pouch or those things that are a little bit, take longer to be processed, but what they do is they are giving you energy that is more sustainable, so you don't have to have like that constant influx of it.

00:10:09.498 --> 00:10:15.283
The other thing to consider is that of course, I'm saying sandwiches versus I know, hang on, I'm not going to be running with a picnic basket.

00:10:15.283 --> 00:10:17.831
We also need to make sure that it's practical.

00:10:17.831 --> 00:10:39.292
So in that case, yes, still, energy gels, a sports drink is going to be helpful to have, but we can add a little bit more variety in that case, and the benefit of doing that is that by adding that variety, nutrition becomes more manageable as well, because it's not as repetitive and it's a little bit more interesting to do so.

00:10:39.292 --> 00:10:44.010
So that's where I would like to be looking at in terms of the type of options that we have.

00:10:44.010 --> 00:10:50.261
So that's where I would like to be looking at in terms of the type of options that we have In terms of the quantity.

00:10:50.282 --> 00:10:53.833
My suggestion would be to start with the smaller portions and from there, find a quantity that you find comfortable.

00:10:53.833 --> 00:11:06.327
I see that a lot of the times, we can go very extreme in terms of like, oh, I'm not going too fast, so probably I'm okay with, let's say, eating a sandwich every two hours, which please don't't do that.

00:11:06.327 --> 00:11:15.095
I would suggest eating something way more frequently, or the other extreme in terms of oh, my cousin told me that energy gels are the way to go on.

00:11:15.115 --> 00:11:40.053
There's like yeah gel after gel after gel, till they have a really like bloated tummy and feeling very uncomfortable because it was just too much yeah, now do you um, and on that note, between sort of sandwiches and gels, do you feel like there's an argument for eating sort of more regular food early on in a race, when your stomach can maybe digest and metabolize more?

00:11:40.053 --> 00:11:48.086
Normal food versus gels and sort of maybe the drink mix stuff, normal food versus gels and and sort of maybe the drink mix stuff.

00:11:48.086 --> 00:11:49.190
Is there an argument for that or is it?

00:11:49.190 --> 00:11:52.078
No, you know, stick to what the race is providing and stick to your drink mix.

00:11:52.100 --> 00:12:01.212
Yeah, I often suggest a mix, not necessarily, because I've seen those approaches in terms of like, oh, I start with food and then, once I can't stand it, I move to energy gels.

00:12:01.293 --> 00:12:08.485
On those options, and what I find is that it probably is easier if, from the start, we distribute them a little bit more evenly.

00:12:08.485 --> 00:12:17.995
So, for example, let's say in that first approach, in terms of I have food and let's say per hour you're eating, and it changes.

00:12:17.995 --> 00:12:23.892
I hope anyone listening is not taking this like okay, gabby's saying two sandwiches per hour, but let's say you're eating the equivalent of.

00:12:23.892 --> 00:12:50.900
Let's say you're eating the equivalent of let's say, a sandwich and a banana every 70 minutes, 80 minutes, let's say, and then at the end, because let's say you stop standing, that you shift to okay, now I need to eat one energy gel every 40 minutes, or something like that yeah well, instead of doing that, what we can do is like, okay, what if we incorporate and we have, let's say, a sandwich at 40 minutes, and then you have the energy gel at one hour, 20, and then you have the banana.

00:12:50.941 --> 00:13:05.049
So that way it's like, at the end you have an energy gel every, let's say, two and a half hours, the sandwiches more spread across the banana as well, and other options that you have, and it makes it way more manageable while supplying energy.

00:13:05.169 --> 00:13:10.039
That is going to be quite helpful in sustaining that effort as well.

00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:22.001
So that will be my suggestion in terms of whether relying on what's available on the course, in terms of the eight stations, I think that depends on one.

00:13:22.001 --> 00:13:23.763
What are your preferences?

00:13:23.763 --> 00:13:24.722
It depends on one.

00:13:24.722 --> 00:13:25.423
What are your preferences?

00:13:25.423 --> 00:13:33.869
As in like, if you are prioritizing food and eight seasons are going to supply that, it's probably helpful to consider a lot of that food from that.

00:13:33.869 --> 00:13:47.076
If you are actually, let's say, having intolerances or prefer to have your own things, well, just know that you will need to rely on whatever you have on your pack or your drop bag or something like that to make sure that that continues to work for you.

00:13:47.076 --> 00:13:59.125
And of course, with that, there comes in the less harm scenario you just have a very sad sandwich at the bottom of your pack that it's like almost squashed.

00:13:59.206 --> 00:14:09.011
In the worst case scenario it goes off because you've been there for so long and you decided that that cheese sandwich was a good idea towards the end of the race and it's no longer safe to consume.

00:14:09.974 --> 00:14:14.193
If we were going to build a sandwich, gabby, are there preferred ingredients that we would put in it?

00:14:14.193 --> 00:14:16.682
Are there specific foods we should look to be taking?

00:14:16.682 --> 00:14:26.942
If we're not doing the gel and drink mix, or if we're going to add to the gel and drink mix, what kind of foods would be good to take that would be sort of more classified as real food?

00:14:27.743 --> 00:14:28.063
yeah.

00:14:28.063 --> 00:14:34.989
So I mean, like I always talk about sandwiches because me, as a dietician, I love them because they are so flexible.

00:14:34.989 --> 00:14:41.321
I know that with my clients sometimes it's a comment that they get to the point where it's like I just don't want a sandwich anymore because it gets too dry.

00:14:41.321 --> 00:14:45.309
But it is an option, not the option, but it's an option.

00:14:45.309 --> 00:14:49.125
When people ask me, like, why should I put in the sandwich my, what I?

00:14:49.125 --> 00:15:03.547
My response is like, I don't care, because what to me what matters is the bread, like, that's the, like the, the sheep carrying everything else yeah so essentially, the reason the sandwich is so good is because we have that carbohydrate from the bread, really important in the case of a race.

00:15:03.586 --> 00:15:07.748
Please use white bread, not wholemeal, because we want to reduce fiber.

00:15:07.748 --> 00:15:13.245
Interesting and of course, if you have intolerances we'll look at like whatever bread works for you.

00:15:13.245 --> 00:15:18.726
But in terms of what to put inside, like that's why I love them you can have peanut butter and jam you can have.

00:15:18.726 --> 00:15:20.951
I haven't cheese tuna.

00:15:20.951 --> 00:15:27.644
Here in australia we have vegemite that a lot of people some people love it, some others on cabby, I can't do vegemite.

00:15:27.724 --> 00:15:29.868
I'm sorry I can't do it.

00:15:29.868 --> 00:15:36.530
I will say though, and not to interrupt your flow but the whole peanut butter and jelly thing too, I can't get on board with that.

00:15:36.530 --> 00:15:38.884
I don't know who who put those two things together.

00:15:38.884 --> 00:15:40.889
But no, I'm not doing it.

00:15:40.889 --> 00:15:46.110
I will pick something else in my sandwich, but, yes, not vegemite for sure, unfortunately.

00:15:47.801 --> 00:16:05.807
So the comment for the Vegemite or, for example, the ham and cheese or something savory and that's why I love the sandwich is because it allows to introduce a savory component in a really easy way, because for most people, most of the options are sweet, so it is nice to have a savory break in there.

00:16:05.807 --> 00:16:09.024
Other foods that work really well are potatoes.

00:16:09.024 --> 00:16:16.311
So, for example, just like boiled potatoes with some butter and salt and you just wrap them in tin foil so you have them there.

00:16:16.311 --> 00:16:28.462
Depending on the race format, for example, rice is also a good one, but that probably works better for backyard ultras, where you have access to if eight in each station more frequently and you don't have to be carrying your rice container.

00:16:28.462 --> 00:16:31.042
Yeah, mashed potato as well.

00:16:31.042 --> 00:16:38.293
And in terms of like not the solely like the sweet options, well, those ones are very easy.

00:16:38.293 --> 00:16:45.576
There's there's bars, and if we think of like real food which, by the way, all food is real because it exists it's like we can.

00:16:45.576 --> 00:16:46.424
We can touch it.

00:16:46.424 --> 00:16:51.335
Well, I do understand is, let's say, homemade right there are.

00:16:51.515 --> 00:16:52.778
You can make raw balls.

00:16:52.778 --> 00:16:58.302
So, for example, like with peanut butter, another degree, as there are many recipes out there that can work for you.

00:16:58.302 --> 00:17:03.495
The benefit, the benefit I see from, let's say, homemade food, is that you can make it to your liking.

00:17:03.495 --> 00:17:12.114
If you like something a little bit sweeter or more savory, or there are particular ingredients that you need to avoid or you like including, it is possible to do so.

00:17:12.114 --> 00:17:21.285
The downside of the food is that it doesn't keep as well, so that's why the packaged food is way more convenient.

00:17:21.285 --> 00:17:37.049
Often in is a smaller portion, like size and like has more density to it, which makes it really easy to to carry and to have with you, especially if you are limited in terms of how much you can have with you absolutely.

00:17:37.550 --> 00:17:50.490
Now one of the interesting downsides of eating all of this food or at least downside in my world anyway is getting to the point where you start to have potentially gastrointestinal issues, right.

00:17:50.490 --> 00:18:04.853
So now that we've eaten all this food during our run, do you have any tips or advice on how we as runners can sort of prevent the GI issues that might arise as we're out there doing extended running?

00:18:05.915 --> 00:18:07.479
Yes, definitely so.

00:18:07.479 --> 00:18:12.272
I mean, gut issues have a variety of causes.

00:18:12.272 --> 00:18:14.278
Often it's not the food.

00:18:14.278 --> 00:18:21.932
It's actually that you're moving and exercising, that is, let's say, that your body's response is manifesting as gut upset.

00:18:21.932 --> 00:18:31.135
However, nutrition definitely can be really helpful in preventing them, and a key strategy is hydration, so making sure that you are well hydrated.

00:18:31.616 --> 00:18:34.768
Of course, this is a I don't know.

00:18:34.768 --> 00:18:43.421
I say sensitive but complicated but complicated topic, because the thing with hydration is that it's not as easy to prescribe as, let's say, carbohydrate.

00:18:43.421 --> 00:18:52.748
In terms of, if you ask me carbohydrate, I can give you ranges of like this many grams to this many grams per hour, and people need to find their sweet spot In terms of hydration.

00:18:52.748 --> 00:19:02.589
It is such a wide range of needs that the best advice I can give is make sure you're aware of your thirst and drink accordingly to it.

00:19:02.589 --> 00:19:05.758
So, of course, to do that, that you have water with you.

00:19:05.758 --> 00:19:12.157
But if you start being prescriptive about your fluid intake, you can overdo it or underdo it.

00:19:12.157 --> 00:19:17.178
So the best thing is, like every 10 minutes, check if you are thirsty, if you are drink.

00:19:17.178 --> 00:19:18.405
If you are not, check again in 10 minutes.

00:19:18.405 --> 00:19:18.486
And if you are well, you are drink.

00:19:18.486 --> 00:19:20.608
If you are, not check again in 10 minutes and if you are well, then go ahead.

00:19:20.608 --> 00:19:21.973
So that's one.

00:19:21.973 --> 00:19:24.031
Hydration plays a key role there.

00:19:24.424 --> 00:19:26.733
The next one is the gut training.

00:19:26.733 --> 00:19:35.214
So, as we said at the start, often we are worried about the race nutrition and during training our food choices are very different.

00:19:35.214 --> 00:19:42.152
Many times I speak with people who run and they don't eat anything beforehand and they don't understand why.

00:19:42.152 --> 00:19:46.069
If they were eating a sandwich in the middle of the run, their stomach couldn't handle it.

00:19:46.069 --> 00:19:50.788
It's like, well, it was not used to have any food at all.

00:19:50.788 --> 00:19:53.693
So that gut training makes a big difference.

00:19:53.693 --> 00:20:02.869
And the next one is also having the opportunity, while you're doing that, that training, to explore how your body is responding to these foods.

00:20:02.869 --> 00:20:07.073
But there's more stress where likely it's going to be like the conditions are different.

00:20:07.073 --> 00:20:27.994
It's going to be less likely that you're going to be happy with that inconvenience that you detected over training.

00:20:27.994 --> 00:20:36.875
And the other one is, as you are doing that, like noticing what is your sweet spot in terms of how much food you are comfortable consuming.

00:20:37.375 --> 00:20:45.036
Right, yeah, how much food you are comfortable consuming, right, yeah, and the last thing I was going to say is that the answer is not not eating, because that can make things way worse.

00:20:45.805 --> 00:21:04.205
So the way, essentially the way your gut responds to well, actually, the way these gut issues are manifested is because one of the key things is well, you are exercising, and when you're exercising, your blood is redirected to your muscles, because that's where you are needing it more.

00:21:04.205 --> 00:21:07.633
So it means that the blood flow to your gut is restricted.

00:21:07.633 --> 00:21:12.549
And if you don't eat, so it means that you are not giving work to your gut.

00:21:12.549 --> 00:21:14.453
That blood flow is even less.

00:21:14.453 --> 00:21:21.355
So it means that it comes to the point where there could even be tissue damage because your, your gut, is not having any circulation there.

00:21:21.694 --> 00:21:37.787
So by eating, you are allowing your gut to like, request resources that keep it active and that, when the other part comes in, as long as you do have that gut training, because otherwise it's like, if you think of it, literally the same as training your legs.

00:21:37.787 --> 00:21:46.455
If you never go for a run and then suddenly decide I'm going to run 100K tomorrow, well, we all know that that's very unlikely to be successful.

00:21:46.455 --> 00:21:47.845
We need to have that training.

00:21:47.845 --> 00:21:49.509
It's literally the same for the gut.

00:21:50.432 --> 00:21:57.218
Wow, yeah, so definitely, folks, include some kind of training for your gut out there.

00:21:57.218 --> 00:22:03.314
Make sure you're eating and testing out different products, different foods while you're out there running.

00:22:03.314 --> 00:22:31.939
And Gabby, you did touch on electrolytes a little bit there and I wanted to talk to some degree on those because you know, every time we run especially here in Texas and really anywhere where it's hot, but especially here where it's humid as well as hot you know electrolyte balance is a big deal and it goes up and down, and so how can we effectively manage our electrolyte balance during long training runs or races and how do we know if we're off?

00:22:31.939 --> 00:22:36.034
What are some of the signs of an imbalance in electrolytes?

00:22:36.034 --> 00:22:38.058
How would that maybe manifest?

00:22:38.058 --> 00:22:42.431
What should we be looking for to sort of cut that off and address it quickly?

00:22:43.092 --> 00:22:46.378
So that's, let's say, not as easy to perceive.

00:22:46.378 --> 00:23:17.012
One thing in terms of like, how those electrolytes are lost is, of course, through sweat, which is the main way in which our body is losing those electrolytes, predominantly sodium, and that's why I only talk about sodium, because all the other electrolytes, as important as they are, very likely you don't need to worry about because you are not losing them in significant amounts, and when you are eating there's like you are consuming them, even if you are not eating a particular electrolyte supplement.

00:23:17.012 --> 00:23:18.009
Your food will have them.

00:23:18.009 --> 00:23:22.957
But even though sodium, for example, if we go to the cheese and ham like, it's present there.

00:23:22.957 --> 00:23:31.140
But we need to be more conscious about it, especially as the race gets longer and as your sweat rate increases.

00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:40.214
So, in terms of what are the things that we need to be aware of, one is, to start with, how heavy sweater you are.

00:23:40.214 --> 00:23:46.272
So the more you sweat, the more likely your sodium losses are going to be higher.

00:23:46.272 --> 00:23:52.594
However, there are people who potentially don't sweat as much, but their sweat is really salty.

00:23:52.594 --> 00:24:00.208
So in that case, even though your sweat rate is not as high as someone else's, your sodium losses could be significant anyway.

00:24:00.208 --> 00:24:05.440
So, in terms of how do we make sure that this is not of concern?

00:24:06.161 --> 00:24:17.393
One is definitely including an electrolyte drink, often a sports drink, which, if you are going to add electrolytes, to me are the preferred option because they also have carbohydrate.

00:24:17.393 --> 00:24:26.648
So you are taking two boxes at the same time you're getting energy and you're getting the electrolytes, so those often will have a component of sodium.

00:24:26.648 --> 00:24:37.930
The other thing to be aware of is that when you're eating, most foods actually have a good amount of sodium, especially if we think of more like the real food, let's say so that is helpful, helpful.

00:24:37.930 --> 00:24:44.385
And then on top of that, that's when, for example, when I work with my athletes, we do calculate exactly how much sodium they are getting.

00:24:44.385 --> 00:24:50.984
So it's easier to say if, potentially, a salt capsule or something extra is required.

00:24:50.984 --> 00:25:01.308
I would say that for most cases, if we have that electrolyte, that the sports drink plus the food, you are already in a good sodium range.

00:25:01.308 --> 00:25:16.733
However, if you want to be like, okay, just in case, perhaps an electrolyte salt tablet every couple of hours just to make sure that things are there, but I still would advise looking at calculating that or making sure that you are not overdoing it.

00:25:17.095 --> 00:25:31.769
Now, in terms of overdoing it, it's hard to get to that point, like you have to be, let's say, eating instant noodles and then a salt tablet every 30 minutes, to be actually like okay, now sodium is crazy, which is unlikely, but it is possible.

00:25:31.769 --> 00:25:33.557
Especially if you are doing things like that.

00:25:33.557 --> 00:25:43.315
It's like well, my friend told me that these capsules are a good idea and you're having that, and then you're having the drink that is boosted in sodium, and then you also have the cliff logs that are extra sodium.

00:25:43.315 --> 00:25:44.611
So suddenly you have a lot.

00:25:44.611 --> 00:25:50.837
So, in terms of signs to look at when the and this is a complicated one.

00:25:50.837 --> 00:25:53.894
So please know that it is an option.

00:25:53.894 --> 00:25:55.788
It doesn't mean that it's the option.

00:25:56.269 --> 00:26:19.375
So, in terms of size, for example, when the sodium or the electrolyte component is low, one of the things that often people experience is that they are peeing too frequently, and the thing is that sodium helps with fluid retention, so by increasing the sodium intake, it can be helpful to reduce that pee frequency.

00:26:19.375 --> 00:26:21.090
Now it has a pee frequency.

00:26:21.090 --> 00:26:23.153
That's something that many people ask me.

00:26:23.153 --> 00:26:25.509
It's up to you.

00:26:25.509 --> 00:26:53.924
You are the one realizing it's more frequent than your normal, because some people actually they do pee frequently, but frequently for someone else's standards, but for them it's like oh, actually, this is my normal, so it's being aware of how frequently you pee and from there, if it's more than usual, then it's likely or the chance of you needing extra sodium is there, and the other one as well, and that's when it's getting into the dangerous space and that's when we need to be very careful.

00:26:53.924 --> 00:26:58.876
And that's why the liquid intake is quite a reason of concern.

00:26:59.244 --> 00:27:15.208
If you are overdoing your fluid intake, even if it has electrolytes, but if you are drinking way more than what you are losing, the risk of you diluting the concentration of sodium in your blood is quite high and that is very dangerous.

00:27:15.208 --> 00:27:17.030
That's where we're heading into the hyponatremia.

00:27:17.030 --> 00:27:24.694
That is a concern because that's when people start getting dizzy, they have headaches and it can be catastrophic if we push it to the extreme.

00:27:24.694 --> 00:27:35.494
Unfortunately, in some instances it can manifest, for example, that headache and getting dizzy is like, oh, I need to drink more water, and then you're drinking more and actually you're making it worse.

00:27:40.066 --> 00:27:54.971
So that's why it is important to stay to that like drink there's which is very, very important and, in terms of like, if you are overdoing it, probably also similar to the people in this case who are going in the other end, where it's like, okay, I know I'm drinking fluid, but like I actually haven't gone to the toilet, so what's going on?

00:27:54.971 --> 00:27:58.087
So it's it's, it's a difficult one.

00:27:58.087 --> 00:28:04.356
That is one of the things that let's say is actually what I'm sharing over the piece, not necessarily being documented.

00:28:04.356 --> 00:28:11.568
This is based on my observations working with people and how, like by changing the ratio of the sodium, like the disease resolve.

00:28:11.568 --> 00:28:25.065
So it's very important to be aware of how your body responds under different circumstances, and that's why the training is really helpful, because that's when you can bring that awareness and start noticing.

00:28:25.065 --> 00:28:32.138
So that way, when you get to race day, you can you can perceive those changes yeah, um, absolutely.

00:28:32.219 --> 00:28:34.971
And I think you mentioned the sweat rate as well.

00:28:34.971 --> 00:28:37.896
Is there a way for us here at home, can we?

00:28:37.896 --> 00:28:40.166
Can we figure out our own sweat rate or at least get a good idea?

00:28:40.166 --> 00:28:40.358
Us here at home, can we?

00:28:40.358 --> 00:28:48.890
Can we figure out our own sweat rate or at least get a good idea, if not, if not as good as you guys, and that way we sort of have a base to go from at least oh, definitely so.

00:28:48.910 --> 00:28:54.208
Sweat rate is a very easy test to do and it's something I do recommend checking.

00:28:54.208 --> 00:29:00.923
So the way, the easiest way to do it is you need a home scale and you need yourself.

00:29:00.923 --> 00:29:06.201
So essentially, what you need to do is, before you head to a run, weight yourself.

00:29:06.201 --> 00:29:18.396
My recommendation especially is, if you are doing it from home, which makes it easier probably very complicated if you are in a public space, but ideally you want to strip down, essentially fully naked, and get on the scale.

00:29:18.396 --> 00:29:26.356
You get on the scale, you register that weight, then you go for a run.

00:29:26.356 --> 00:29:28.444
I would say ideally no longer than 90 minutes.

00:29:28.444 --> 00:29:30.653
Probably the switchboard will be one hour.

00:29:30.653 --> 00:29:43.000
The reason for that is because the longer you're going for, the more factors we need to consider, such as your fluid intake, if you stopped at a toilet, if you ate something, so it's easier to not have to measure those things.

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:50.625
Ideally, you actually want to weigh as well, because even if it's one hour, especially if it's very warm, you do want to have some fluid intake throughout.

00:29:50.625 --> 00:29:52.548
So you also need to weigh.

00:29:52.548 --> 00:29:59.935
You grab your water bottle and you put it on the scale as well and you measure how much it was, how heavy it was before you went to your run.

00:29:59.935 --> 00:30:14.093
Then you put your clothes back on you, head to your run, come home, weigh your water bottle after the run and also weigh yourself Once again, make sure you dry all your sweat, take your clothes off and record that weight.

00:30:14.093 --> 00:30:26.666
So the difference that we had in between from your weight and also once you add the weight from the bottle, that is going to be your sweat rate, very important under those circumstances.

00:30:27.127 --> 00:30:40.904
So things to consider the pace of which you're running, the time of the day, how hot it was, how windy it was, how humid it was if you were running in the sun or in the shade, was if you were running in the sun or in the shade.

00:30:43.644 --> 00:30:50.994
The reason I'm making emphasis on that is because, let's say you were running and it was really hot, you were in the sun, it was very humid, your sweat rate and you were pushing hard, your sweat rate is going to be crazy high.

00:30:50.994 --> 00:31:13.200
And then you take that value and you will have now a ultra in the winter and you are going at a slower pace and you are trying to get those, let's say, two liters and that way that your sweat rate suggests it probably is going to be very likely that now you're overdoing your hydration because that sweat rate is not consistent.

00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:15.634
It changes a lot depending on the circumstances.

00:31:15.634 --> 00:31:22.913
So once you do that test, my suggestion would be like, in a few months or under different circumstances, do another one.

00:31:22.913 --> 00:31:27.375
So that way you get a reference of, let's say, at least four tests during the year.

00:31:27.375 --> 00:31:34.695
So that way you know what it's like in the middle of summer, what it's like in the middle of winter, what about, like the in-between seasons?

00:31:34.695 --> 00:31:36.651
So that way you have a better reference.

00:31:36.651 --> 00:31:39.585
It ultras sometimes in the same race.

00:31:39.625 --> 00:31:52.490
You go through all those weathers because it's dark and it's really hot, that's cold, so it's beneficial to be aware of that, because at least it's a reference that you can keep in mind in terms of how much fluid your body typically loses when in those situations.

00:31:52.490 --> 00:31:52.991
I think it's it's.

00:31:52.991 --> 00:31:55.356
It's fascinating and something everybody should do.

00:31:55.356 --> 00:31:57.701
I those who have listened to the show before I'm I when.

00:31:57.721 --> 00:32:00.711
In those situations I think it's fascinating and something everybody should do.

00:32:00.711 --> 00:32:20.713
Those who have listened to the show before I know you know that I'm in Texas, so it's hot as crap most of the time here, so the sweat rate is off the chart for most of the year, but then come, you know, we have two cold months, really, January and February, and it's a completely different ballgame out there.

00:32:20.713 --> 00:32:48.789
So knowing your sweat rate if I can say the word, properly, and having a good barometer for that in each of the seasons, let's say, I think is probably a really good idea to pair with your food intake that we were talking about just a minute ago oh, definitely, and a lot of people find their result extremely surprising, usually for most people, unless they are aware that they are really heavy sweaters.

00:32:48.809 --> 00:32:49.432
Because that's the thing.

00:32:49.432 --> 00:33:03.255
Like they think that, for example, if you see someone that looks like they just step out of the shower and they are like fully damp, they are like, oh, two liters or something like that, and then they do it themselves at this, like 1.8 liters in one hour.

00:33:03.255 --> 00:33:03.977
It's like what?

00:33:03.977 --> 00:33:09.511
Like I don't see my sweat, but, yes, the fluid losses are there, so it's really worth it doing it.

00:33:10.545 --> 00:33:23.655
Definitely have that in your bag for your training and for your races, to be able to switch, because, as Gabby said, I mean there are races even I've been in recently where the climate changes throughout the race.

00:33:23.655 --> 00:33:31.013
You've got two or three different climates and knowing how you're going to sweat through those I think is really important.

00:33:31.013 --> 00:33:42.214
So now we talked pre-run, we talked training and we talked a little bit about what we're doing during the run to manage GI distress and to get some calories in and then get the right electrolyte balance.

00:33:42.214 --> 00:33:44.866
How about post run, gabby?

00:33:44.866 --> 00:33:56.518
What should we be looking for from a recovery nutrition practice standpoint, for either long runs or, you know, at the end of each week we're training or after a race?

00:33:56.518 --> 00:33:57.606
What should we be eating?

00:33:57.606 --> 00:34:02.951
How soon should we be eating it to sort of maximize our recovery potential?

00:34:03.712 --> 00:34:07.667
Yeah, so there are what is called the three R's of recovery.

00:34:07.667 --> 00:34:14.788
So it is refuel, repair, rehydrate and refuel we're talking about carbohydrates predominantly.

00:34:14.788 --> 00:34:17.172
Repair we are repairing our muscles.

00:34:17.172 --> 00:34:19.858
So protein and rehydrate with fluids.

00:34:19.858 --> 00:34:29.253
Now, in terms of when, my suggestion is as soon as you can will be better, so the sooner the better, in general, to prioritize those ones.

00:34:29.253 --> 00:34:45.677
If you have to choose and that's when the fitness world has made us believe that protein is the thing that we need to look at straight after training and it turns out that, yes, protein is important, but the window to replenish it is open for a long time.

00:34:45.677 --> 00:34:53.286
So, yes, it is important that, let's say, in the 12 hours after your heart activity you don't consume protein.

00:34:53.286 --> 00:35:14.836
But ideally, the thing that you want to prioritize straight afterwards is going to be carbohydrates, because the way your body replenishes that glycogen, the sooner you do it after training, the quicker it is going to be for your body to send it straight to your fuel tank, let's say so that's why it is helpful to make sure that you do have that carbohydrate.

00:35:14.836 --> 00:35:19.873
The benefit of eating the carbohydrate with the protein first it makes it a tastier meal.

00:35:19.873 --> 00:35:26.811
For example, you can have your whole sandwich instead of having bread, or there are many different options.

00:35:26.811 --> 00:35:29.586
I'll try and think of different options instead of just sandwiches.

00:35:29.586 --> 00:35:34.606
And the other thing is that, physiologically, carbohydrate and protein help each other.

00:35:34.606 --> 00:35:46.077
So by eating carbohydrates with protein, the carbohydrate is stored better and the protein is also stored better because of that combination, so it's helpful to eat them together.

00:35:46.077 --> 00:36:07.992
So if you have to pick a time and let's say it is difficult to because when I say straight away, it's not like you cross the finish line or you pause your garment and you're like that, like eating straight away but ideally we want to say in the first hour we do want to have something and if not at least in the first two hours, that's what we want to be looking at, a meal.

00:36:07.992 --> 00:36:14.110
So in the first hour is when we have, let's say, a smoothie or a shake or something like that.

00:36:14.110 --> 00:36:24.849
In the first two hours now we have the eggs on toast or we have the, even the hamburger, or a meal like, for example, I pull off pasta with some chicken.

00:36:24.849 --> 00:36:26.146
That's a good option as well.

00:36:26.907 --> 00:36:33.824
It, of course, depends on what the activity was in the case of, let's say, was a one hour run.

00:36:33.824 --> 00:36:50.534
In that case I would say, okay, very likely a banana and a fruit sorry, and a yogurt powder, a yogurt thing, would be enough to, let's say, recover from that one hour and then you can go on and make sure that in your next meal you just still maintain that balance.

00:36:50.534 --> 00:36:54.641
If it was a three hour run, very different story.

00:36:54.641 --> 00:36:58.978
We want to make sure that straight away you are already having that meal or something bigger.

00:36:58.978 --> 00:37:08.576
If it was a race, it does get complicated because I'm sure that for most people you finish the race and the last thing you want even though before the race you think, is avoid.

00:37:08.576 --> 00:37:10.501
The first thing you're going to want is food.

00:37:10.501 --> 00:37:15.481
But for a lot of people the appetite, like the desire to eat, is not there.

00:37:15.481 --> 00:37:21.061
So my suggestion is all right, we finish the race, if possible getting some liquid calories.

00:37:21.061 --> 00:37:24.054
So, for example, chocolate, milk is something that works well.

00:37:24.054 --> 00:37:29.523
Some brands also sell recovery powders.

00:37:29.704 --> 00:37:37.541
Let's say that do have carbohydrate and protein okay, yeah but literally seriously, chocolate milk is like literally the same thing and probably tastier.

00:37:37.541 --> 00:37:40.713
But if you want to invest on something like that, that's an option.

00:37:40.713 --> 00:37:48.762
And because let's say it's that appetite, that desire to eat is suppressed, like, just take it easy, don't, don't rush it, just be having a small sip.

00:37:48.762 --> 00:37:53.675
Very likely, in a few hours, your appetite will come back and your desire to eat will be there.

00:37:53.675 --> 00:38:10.418
Please make sure that you do eat in that case, and in terms of what to eat, if you were struggling with that desire to eat, my suggestion is whatever you feel like I think for a lot of people actually someone was sharing yesterday they ended up having toasted sandwiches or toast.

00:38:11.150 --> 00:38:17.476
For some reason, toast is something that feels appealing at that stage and just please go ahead and do it.

00:38:17.556 --> 00:38:20.668
If it's pizza, if it's pasta, whatever it is, go for it.

00:38:20.668 --> 00:38:26.451
Like there is no point on me saying, oh, the optimal food is going to be this one if you don't feel like having it anyway.

00:38:26.451 --> 00:38:29.896
So that is the idea.

00:38:29.896 --> 00:39:00.246
And then, if, if, in the case of an ultra, the recovery and being deliberate about your food choices, I would suggest minimum 40 48 hours where you are being proactive about carbohydrate and protein being present on your meals, ideally at least a whole week, where you're being very deliberate about making sure that what you are eating is nourishing and it doesn't mean because I know that that's something that a lot of people look forward to in terms of being more flexible with their food intake.

00:39:00.246 --> 00:39:09.289
By all means, please go ahead and definitely eat those things that you've been craving and looking forward to it, but make sure that, alongside that, you are still including the protein.

00:39:09.289 --> 00:39:15.295
You're still including a variety of fruits and vegetables as well, to keep supplying your body with those nutrients.

00:39:15.315 --> 00:39:30.478
That will do very well, yeah, and on the sort of lack of appetite, it's the most curious thing the the moment you need the the most food in your appetite seems to disappear, and it happens quite regularly during a run.

00:39:30.478 --> 00:39:42.494
And I'm not sure why, but but it just like there is a time in just about every race I've ever done where you think I just I can't face eating anything at the moment and all the best laid plans go, go out the window.

00:39:42.494 --> 00:39:44.597
So I don't know like why, why is that?

00:39:44.597 --> 00:39:46.822
Do you know why appetite goes?

00:39:47.610 --> 00:39:48.653
yeah, two reasons.

00:39:48.653 --> 00:39:51.358
One is that exodus is an appetite suppressant.

00:39:51.358 --> 00:40:03.701
So the way, let's say, appetite is regulated in our body, there are some hormones released that are indicated to our brain that it's time to eat, and exercise, even if you actually need food, is an appetite suppressant.

00:40:03.701 --> 00:40:09.503
So that's why I often advise against waiting to be hungry to eat during a run.

00:40:09.503 --> 00:40:26.460
A lot of people think that because they are not hungry, they are okay, just not eating, when in reality it's just that, let's say, the exercise is putting the body way down in terms of your hunger levels and then afterwards it's very similar because it actually extends for some time that suppression.

00:40:27.382 --> 00:40:35.409
That's one and the other one is literally similar to, for example, you just went for a very long run to relax while working.

00:40:35.409 --> 00:40:37.610
The last thing you want to do is keep running.

00:40:37.610 --> 00:40:39.197
It's very similar for your gut.

00:40:39.197 --> 00:40:41.358
It was working really hard all the way.

00:40:41.358 --> 00:40:44.054
The last thing it is right now is to keep working.

00:40:44.054 --> 00:40:49.429
So essentially that's very likely, both being at interplay.

00:40:49.429 --> 00:41:16.753
So that's why I would say after training because usually it's more the appetite case, not necessarily that the gut is in that strike of not wanting to eat I would suggest it's still helpful, even in the article is still really helpful to prioritize that refueling after the race, where it's very likely that even if, let's say, force it down, it will come back up because it's it's now the stomach is actually struggling to work.

00:41:16.753 --> 00:41:23.556
Then in that case just give it some time, take it very gentle and, as soon as you are able to, please go ahead and do it.

00:41:24.378 --> 00:41:29.155
Yeah, I feel like I'm going to have to have a very serious chat with my gut at some point to tell it not to go on strike.

00:41:29.155 --> 00:41:34.585
It is not allowed to do that any longer, right at the point where I need I need the calories coming in.

00:41:34.585 --> 00:41:37.396
I'll have to, I'll have to have a sit down and chat about that.

00:41:37.396 --> 00:41:48.255
I think, um, yeah, now, one of the things I think, gabby, that you guys do really well is the whole nutritional plans and and figuring out individual needs and and preferences.

00:41:48.255 --> 00:41:52.242
How how can we, as runners, kind of take that same approach?

00:41:52.242 --> 00:42:00.918
How do we figure out what it is we're going to need, you know, and kind of tailor our own nutritional plan, if you will, or should we be working with somebody like you guys?

00:42:02.092 --> 00:42:33.237
I strongly recommend that and like it's not because it's my interest, but it's something that is really helpful, because I can see how this is can be quite intimidating, and the worst thing is that and ironically because right now we're in the era where we can easily have access to everything online the problem with that is the moment you Google it, you'll find so many different approaches and so many different things telling you that oh you know, actually you have to go keto, or it's the 120 grams of carbohydrate per hour, or actually it's real food.

00:42:33.237 --> 00:42:34.112
This is how you need to do it.

00:42:34.112 --> 00:42:52.277
So for the person at the other end, it becomes extremely overwhelming and, instead of starting to make positive changes, sometimes they take a mix of everything that now is making things way worse, or they just keep doing the same thing they've been doing, because it's very difficult to see with clarity what to do.

00:42:52.277 --> 00:42:57.621
So I do understand that, of course, that requires an investment.

00:42:57.621 --> 00:43:08.365
In my case, I'm making an effort to have offers available in terms of making it easier for people to have access to that, without necessarily being such a large investment, but still there.

00:43:08.829 --> 00:43:15.681
Now, if I were to give simpler tips, let's say in terms of OK, right now I'm not ready for that.

00:43:15.681 --> 00:43:17.125
But how can I get started?

00:43:17.125 --> 00:43:25.268
One option is look at what you're doing right now and from there, assess if that's good.

00:43:25.268 --> 00:43:29.099
So let's say, well, right now I'm doing nothing, like literally I'm not eating.

00:43:29.099 --> 00:43:32.639
Okay, my advice would be like definitely you need to eat.

00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:34.617
So how can we incorporate something?

00:43:34.617 --> 00:43:39.838
And starting with something is like okay, for example, if you are, I don't want to invest in energy juice.

00:43:39.838 --> 00:43:51.702
All right, let's just start with a banana or a baby food pouch or something that you can incorporate during your run, especially if that confidence or like ability to eat is not there.

00:43:51.702 --> 00:43:55.896
Even if it's a ridiculous amount, it's better than nothing.

00:43:55.896 --> 00:44:08.056
So, because you are starting to do that training for the whole body and the whole experience to be comfortable eating let's say you are at a different stage where, yes, you are eating, but you feel like you are all over the place.

00:44:08.056 --> 00:44:13.057
All right, sit down and see how much you are doing at the moment.

00:44:13.057 --> 00:44:21.581
So, even if you are not being a structure about how you are going at your nutrition, there is going to be something going on.

00:44:21.621 --> 00:44:33.673
So when you analyze your last races of all, I don't remember that often I was just relying on the aid station and I know that by the time I go to the last one, it was very difficult to eat because I didn't feel like anything, or probably I was so.

00:44:33.673 --> 00:44:36.579
Based on that, it's like, okay, how can I make this different?

00:44:36.579 --> 00:44:47.159
Maybe, as gaby suggested, like this four string, I should look at that and have, like, at least some energy intake from there, or that idea of a sandwich every hour doesn't sound too bad, so let's try that.

00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:57.257
So this is a role that is possible, but of like it does take some trial and error in terms of going and exploring and understanding how your body responds to this.

00:45:00.215 --> 00:45:04.052
Yeah, like that's probably because it's very complicated for me to say like, oh, this is the way to go.

00:45:04.052 --> 00:45:05.438
I wish it was like that.

00:45:05.438 --> 00:45:14.436
Like, seriously, if I could have a template and say like, 100 miler, here you go, just follow this and you're going to be successful, I will be definitely sharing that.

00:45:14.436 --> 00:45:22.516
But because everybody is so different and running at different paces and there are so many different things that we need to consider, it's difficult to do so.

00:45:22.516 --> 00:45:32.068
But definitely, starting with that structure and understanding how your body responds and knowing that the solution is not eating is important.

00:45:32.068 --> 00:45:35.099
It's like okay, I know I need to start consuming something.

00:45:35.099 --> 00:45:37.454
How can I start taking the steps towards that?

00:45:38.096 --> 00:45:44.887
Yeah, one of the things I really like about the nutrition side of things too is that it's not just for racing and training either.

00:45:44.907 --> 00:45:59.099
I mean, I think if you approach it from a really holistic point of view which is where I ended up I didn't start out trying to do that, but it's's you know that the nutrition and what you eat is just as relevant in regular life as it is for training and and anything else.

00:45:59.181 --> 00:46:25.561
Right, so that you know what you put in, you get out kind of thing, and and you sort of start at least for me, start by avoiding all the, all the sodas and all that stuff and put everything, all of that away and cut out the fast food and then kind of hone in on the stuff that you want during the race, and then, and then it sort of works its way backwards from the race to the rest of life to say, okay, well, these are the things that work in the race, so I'm going to keep eating those things because they seem to be better for me outside of that as well.

00:46:26.164 --> 00:46:43.402
And then I've sort of almost graduated to like a plant-based strategy at the moment, not by choice, but just because those are the things I found work better and I like to eat better as part of training, and I trained so long that it just became a regular habit and I feel much better about myself for that.

00:46:43.402 --> 00:46:48.262
So it's uh, I think the whole nutrition thing is really, really interesting in that.

00:46:48.262 --> 00:47:03.112
Yeah, it can start with your race and your training, but I I feel like there's definitely scope to look at the rest of your life and impact your life in a positive way just by expanding that viewpoint, taking it out wider, very cool.

00:47:03.994 --> 00:47:06.800
Definitely, and often I mean with the people I work with.

00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:08.530
That's what they notice.

00:47:08.530 --> 00:47:19.268
So most people come to me because they have a concern or a race or something they want to address in terms of most of the time is I have this race and this is why I'm interested in working with you?

00:47:19.268 --> 00:47:26.864
Yeah, but as part of what we do is actually looking at every area of your nutrition, because every area of your nutrition is going to impact that race result.

00:47:40.710 --> 00:47:44.358
I didn't notice that by working, that this area of how I was having my breakfast or how I was having my lunch needed attention, and how much better I feel just by working on that.

00:47:44.378 --> 00:47:47.126
Even though it has nothing to do with their raw nutrition, it actually has made things better for me.

00:47:47.126 --> 00:47:48.849
I'm sleeping better, I'm recovering better.

00:47:48.849 --> 00:47:55.483
That crankiness I was feeling at the end of the day it actually I didn't know it was my lunch that I needed to address.

00:47:55.483 --> 00:48:06.864
So, yeah, it definitely makes a big, big difference, and one thing that I often strive to use is to encourage people to see what is missing instead of what I need to cut out.

00:48:06.864 --> 00:48:36.704
So it's in looking at, okay, how can I make this better, instead of being, oh, I need to get rid of this, and I need to get rid of that Because sometimes what it does is that we stop fueling, even though let's say, if it was a donut at the end of the lunch, well, that's still some carbohydrate that your body was probably happily having and instead of saying, okay, maybe I don't want the donut anymore, but how can I replenish this energy with something more nutritious?

00:48:36.704 --> 00:48:39.492
That is a way I would suggest looking at as well.

00:48:40.594 --> 00:48:43.902
Yeah, absolutely, and you talk about you've still got to keep fueling.

00:48:43.902 --> 00:48:58.041
And one of the things that I've come across with myself to a degree, but others in the circle too, is just this concept that hey, when I'm training, I need to lose weight, and I'm not sure that's a really good thing to be doing.

00:48:58.041 --> 00:49:03.782
When you're out there doing all the running and expending all the energy, you need to put food in to keep going.

00:49:03.782 --> 00:49:20.329
So you know, running to lose weight or at least training to do ultra running to lose and having lose weight be one of your goals, I don't think is a really great thing to be doing, because you need to be putting the food in and then you get back into okay, well, what foods are going to work and back into there.

00:49:20.329 --> 00:49:33.103
But yeah, I hear that more often than I probably should Like hey, I'm not losing weight, or I need to lose weight, so I'm not going to eat, or I'm going to eat very light, but still try to run 50, 60, 70 miles a week or whatever it is.

00:49:35.893 --> 00:49:38.181
And it just it doesn't seem to add up.

00:49:38.181 --> 00:49:55.510
Yeah, definitely, and I think a big part of that and that's something that it's pretty well who follows me on social media you'll see that that's a really strong message I always share, because to me is really I can see the frustration of why, if I'm training so much and I'm trying to look after my diet, I'm still gaining weight.

00:49:55.510 --> 00:50:03.998
And the worst thing is that I'm injured the whole time, I'm not performing well, I'm like I'm not sure if I'm even falling out of love of this sport.

00:50:03.998 --> 00:50:13.221
And a big part of that is, of course, how we, like society is pushing that message of oh, exercise is to lose weight.

00:50:13.221 --> 00:50:17.797
And sometimes and including myself, for example, I got into the sport because of that.

00:50:17.869 --> 00:50:36.996
Like, I had that motivation behind my physical activities, like well, I know that I would like to lose weight, but then what a lot of us find out, I think, is that once you are there, it's like hang on, like that's the last thing I need to worry about, like this is beautiful, like look at all the places I'm going, like I'm going, how my body feels, amazing when I'm moving.

00:50:37.297 --> 00:50:38.858
I'm meeting wonderful people.

00:50:38.858 --> 00:50:44.826
I love the whole experience of running, and that's why I push that message strongly.

00:50:44.826 --> 00:51:02.835
It's actually like weight loss is the last thing that you need to be looking at, because physical activity is so good for your body in so many different ways that by focusing so much on losing weight, you are doing a disservice to your body in terms of enhancing that experience by restricting those nutrients and the energy.

00:51:02.835 --> 00:51:10.775
It's making it really hard for your body to continue to allow you to enjoy this as much as possible and continue to get better at it as well.

00:51:10.775 --> 00:51:16.884
I do encourage people to to look at what is beyond that weight loss.

00:51:16.884 --> 00:51:18.893
Well, I want to feel better in myself.

00:51:18.893 --> 00:51:21.521
Okay, do we believe that?

00:51:21.521 --> 00:51:23.067
Actually, lucy way will change that?

00:51:23.347 --> 00:51:26.998
yeah no, because I actually know that I've been there and I still didn't feel better.

00:51:26.998 --> 00:51:31.697
So okay, let's look at how can you feel better yourself, or like I want to feel better in my clothes.

00:51:31.697 --> 00:51:33.972
Well, what is stopping you from finding clothes that are comfortable right now?

00:51:33.972 --> 00:51:34.324
And I want to feel better in my clothes?

00:51:34.324 --> 00:51:35.675
Well, what is stopping you from finding clothes that are comfortable right now?

00:51:35.675 --> 00:51:41.960
And I want to be better at the sport, which is probably the main reason people often share.

00:51:41.960 --> 00:51:53.481
Well, being better at the sport is being consistent at training, is fueling your body adequately, is sleeping well, is having a training program that you're able to follow.

00:51:53.481 --> 00:52:01.159
That is going to be important for you to be better at the sport, not dropping a few pounds on the scale.

00:52:01.981 --> 00:52:02.402
Absolutely.

00:52:02.402 --> 00:52:07.914
I think that's a great message and definitely something folks out there should bear in mind, not the primary reason.

00:52:07.914 --> 00:52:10.690
I wouldn't think most of us are doing this Now.

00:52:10.690 --> 00:52:13.958
Gabby, I can't let you go without talking a little bit.

00:52:13.958 --> 00:52:21.952
We mentioned in the intro there about Mr Phil Gore setting the world record backyard ultra, with your help, I understand.

00:52:21.952 --> 00:52:28.431
So I have to ask how did that come about and how did you figure out what was needed in his plan?

00:52:28.431 --> 00:52:34.958
And really how excited were you when he went I think it was 102 yards, 425 miles last year.

00:52:34.958 --> 00:52:38.922
Knowing that you guys, you had a part to play in that journey.

00:52:38.922 --> 00:52:39.824
That's phenomenal.

00:52:39.824 --> 00:52:40.925
Tell us about that.

00:52:41.965 --> 00:52:43.775
Yeah, thank you, I'm very happy to share about it.

00:52:43.775 --> 00:52:47.860
So, yeah, phil and I have been working for quite some time now.

00:52:47.860 --> 00:52:50.739
We met in April 2022.

00:52:50.739 --> 00:52:57.155
I was doing a presentation for ultra runners here in Perth, western Australia, and he was in the audience.

00:52:57.155 --> 00:53:03.920
By the way, like when I saw him there, I was like, oh my God, he's here Because he was already a very famous runner, especially in the community here.

00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:09.931
And at the end of the presentation he got in touch saying like, hey, I would love to get some support for my nutrition.

00:53:09.931 --> 00:53:12.038
And that's when we started to work together.

00:53:12.579 --> 00:53:30.262
So back then, his bacteria ultra personal best was 51 laps and when we started to work together, the very first concern for him was he's got issues that were stopping him from having a successful experience while training.

00:53:30.262 --> 00:53:32.094
So that was the first thing that we addressed.

00:53:32.094 --> 00:53:39.460
Once we got that out of the way, let's say we started to focus about the strategy for each of his factor ultras.

00:53:39.460 --> 00:53:50.876
Anyone who knows Fjordgård will know that he's really structured and deliberate about how he manages his factor ultras.

00:53:50.876 --> 00:53:55.184
So when we started to work on that, he already had a plan that he was following.

00:53:55.184 --> 00:54:07.496
His plan was essentially, every three hours, eating a main meal, not necessarily saying which meal, but just saying meal and then he would decide there and then from there snacking here and there.

00:54:07.496 --> 00:54:12.579
But at least he had an idea of the freedom he wanted to follow.

00:54:12.579 --> 00:54:20.782
So once we look into that, the first thing that I realized is that, even though he had that, his fuel intake was really, really low.

00:54:20.782 --> 00:54:27.172
So the first thing that we needed to work is like, how can we make sure that you are eating more calories and carbohydrates during these races?

00:54:27.172 --> 00:54:35.731
So we started to incorporate more food options and a little bit more variety and being more deliberate about what he was consuming.

00:54:36.153 --> 00:54:41.554
By the way, I have I feel like I'm being very specific about this because I literally just did a presentation detailing all this.

00:54:41.554 --> 00:54:45.199
So anyway, that was essentially we.

00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:53.760
We work on four, four different backyards, like three different backyards, before we got to the fourth one, which was the world record performance.

00:54:53.760 --> 00:55:01.929
So that's just to show how it does require the time and that ability to okay, because we work on the first land.

00:55:01.929 --> 00:55:08.664
He went and executed and from his PB, from 51 went to 54.

00:55:08.664 --> 00:55:12.440
And then from there he had the satellite champs.

00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:15.298
So from there he made more adjustments.

00:55:15.298 --> 00:55:18.376
In this case, the adjustments were about the types of food.

00:55:18.376 --> 00:55:22.916
He was having to make sure that it was more energy dense and more variety At the satellite champs.

00:55:22.916 --> 00:55:27.318
He ran for 76 hours, so pretty much adding a whole day.

00:55:28.130 --> 00:55:30.860
Yes, a whole extra day to his performance.

00:55:30.860 --> 00:55:38.255
Then from there it was like was like actually, we noticed those electrolytes, electrolyte imbalances that needed to be corrected.

00:55:38.255 --> 00:55:43.432
So there was a local backyard ultra where he ran 57 hours.

00:55:43.432 --> 00:55:49.413
He still won, uh, but we were able to correct that and we noticed that pretty much from that experience.

00:55:49.413 --> 00:55:59.853
He reported how the plan was pretty much spot on, like everything felt perfect, even to the point that he finished that 57 lap and he was happy to keep going for much longer.

00:55:59.853 --> 00:56:03.931
It was, of course, in a bacterial trial you go as far as the assist can go.

00:56:03.931 --> 00:56:10.730
So that was the end of the race and from there the next event was that world record performance.

00:56:10.730 --> 00:56:27.679
So by then we had built a plan that we were very well aware that the energy was spot on, the electrolytes were spot on and the last thing that we needed to add was, for example, the caffeine intake and how he was going to manage his alertness and sleep as well.

00:56:28.329 --> 00:56:39.978
So by the time we got to that, 102 hours running and of course I'm very happy with that experience is still finishing really strong and with full aware, alertness and and energy.

00:56:39.978 --> 00:56:42.931
So it was, it's been a journey.

00:56:42.931 --> 00:57:05.701
We continue to work together, because he still has races that he's preparing for and we we continue to work on those, uh, but it's to show how it is important to be patient, even though, like yes, of course, he's a really talented athlete and for a lot of the people I work with, they start with, let's say, moving from 10 hours to 15 hours to aiming for 24.

00:57:05.701 --> 00:57:09.369
In his case, his very first backyard, he ran 39 hours.

00:57:09.369 --> 00:57:10.652
So the talent is there.

00:57:10.652 --> 00:57:36.835
However, still being deliberate about the nutrition and making sure that we are working on that in a way that we continue to identify the areas of opportunity, that's what allows us to have a really solid strategy finish at 102 for the world record.

00:57:36.855 --> 00:57:43.876
It just goes to show what a difference paying attention to what you're doing and improving step by step can make, and and nutrition I I guess was a big, continues to be a big part of that.

00:57:43.876 --> 00:57:54.376
So congratulations to you guys and to phil and and yourself for having having a huge role to play in that world record, which I think has since been surpassed incredibly.

00:57:54.376 --> 00:57:55.097
So I'm hoping phil has got his eyes set on an play in that world record, which I think has since been surpassed incredibly.

00:57:55.097 --> 00:58:03.195
So I'm hoping Phil has got his eyes set on a new world record or going back at it, Because you know those types at the top end.

00:58:03.195 --> 00:58:06.342
They're always like OK, if you can do it, I can beat it.

00:58:06.342 --> 00:58:10.199
So I'm sure he's got that back in his sights for one of these days.

00:58:11.181 --> 00:58:15.237
Yes, definitely, I believe that's there on the radar.

00:58:15.237 --> 00:58:29.215
And yeah, it is incredible, like when we think of how hard and like how far this human body is capable of going, it's just continuous like oh, it never seems to amaze me, especially with the people I work with with ultra runners.

00:58:29.255 --> 00:58:42.797
It's just incredible what everybody pushes through yeah, just the never mind the physical side of things for a minute, just the mentality to, to keep going when there's literally no end to the race, there's no finish line.

00:58:42.797 --> 00:58:46.286
The mindset you need to to do that and keep pushing.

00:58:46.286 --> 00:58:47.369
I think is is incredible.

00:58:47.369 --> 00:58:48.532
So I love the backyard.

00:58:48.532 --> 00:59:00.378
Ultra is really interesting racing style very, very different but yeah, it produces some incredible results, like Phil Fantastic, now Gabby each episode.

00:59:00.378 --> 00:59:16.076
One of the things we do is try to encourage guests to choose a song to add to the free Choose to Enjoy Spotify playlist that's out there Something family friendly to lift you up, maybe motivate you or just keep your butt moving while you're out on the trail.

00:59:16.076 --> 00:59:18.103
Now you chose a great song.

00:59:18.103 --> 00:59:21.594
Do you want to tell the folks out there which song you picked, or do you want me to do?

00:59:22.215 --> 00:59:23.780
no, I'm happy to tell about it.

00:59:23.780 --> 00:59:38.699
So I love the Zootopia movie and I love the song try everything, uh is like by Shakira, which is a latina as well, and what I love about it is is what it it's like I won't give up, I won't give in till I've reached the end and then I'll start again.

00:59:39.831 --> 00:59:56.391
I joke at some stage that it was that was me at a buffet bar, but no, I also like to apply that to life, of course, in terms of, yeah, like when it says birds don't just fly, they just like uh flying and they don't keep up.

00:59:56.391 --> 01:00:06.530
So I, I love that especially when we think of ultras is actually till I reach the end, and then, once I'm there, there's going to be a new challenge ahead of me and I'm going to embrace it as well.

01:00:06.530 --> 01:00:13.273
So, yeah, it's, I hope, and it's very cheerful song, so I hope everybody enjoys it it is, and that is definitely one of my favorite movies.

01:00:13.293 --> 01:00:18.382
Zootopia I am really looking forward to Zootopia 2, if and when that comes out.

01:00:18.382 --> 01:00:20.590
But yes, I think that's a brilliant song.

01:00:20.590 --> 01:00:24.802
Somebody asked me one time what the is there a great ultra running song?

01:00:24.802 --> 01:00:26.213
And that's kind of what we're looking for in here.

01:00:26.213 --> 01:00:27.916
I think this song might be it.

01:00:27.916 --> 01:00:32.934
I mean, it's very uh, it's a perfect song to describe an ultra.

01:00:32.934 --> 01:00:40.666
It's really, really good and, like you said, it's got some very, very relevant lyrics in there about when you fall down, you have to get up again and keep going.

01:00:40.666 --> 01:00:45.882
That's how you learn and keep pushing forward and don't give up and try all the things and try all the race stars.

01:00:45.882 --> 01:00:50.117
So I think it's a brilliant choice, good job and just a wonderful movie.

01:00:50.117 --> 01:01:03.739
So, yeah, so we'll get that song added to the playlist so that folks out there can enjoy it as much as you do and I do, for that matter.

01:01:03.760 --> 01:01:05.804
Thank you so much, gabby, for sharing your insights on optimizing nutrition for ultra runners.

01:01:05.804 --> 01:01:21.083
I think your expertise has shed light on how we can make food work for us, not against us, in our ultra journeys and for listeners out there, remember that fueling with purpose building a strong, happy body is within reach for all of us.

01:01:21.083 --> 01:01:29.023
Hopefully, you found some tips, maybe an aha moment, in the information Gabby has been generously sharing with us.

01:01:29.023 --> 01:01:38.625
Or perhaps you just want to learn more and start your own nutritional journey as a complement to all the other training you're doing for a big race?

01:01:38.625 --> 01:01:54.101
If so, you can find more information about Gabby and her methodologies at intenseeatfitcom, which I will put in the show notes, and you can also follow her on Instagram, as she mentioned, much like I do.

01:01:54.101 --> 01:01:57.726
I will, of course, provide the links to all of those in the show notes, and you can also follow her on Instagram, as she mentioned, much like I do.

01:01:57.726 --> 01:01:58.697
I will, of course, provide the links to all of those in the show notes.

01:01:58.697 --> 01:02:00.724
If you want to go check them out, learn more, please do.

01:02:01.083 --> 01:02:10.121
I think Gabby also has a free fueling mindset quiz that you can go take out there as well to get you started, which I'll also put the link to.

01:02:10.121 --> 01:02:23.054
While you're out there on the internet searching for those, don't forget to subscribe to the show here, get notified each time a new episode comes out and, of course, follow, like and share.

01:02:23.054 --> 01:02:24.739
It would be much appreciated.

01:02:24.739 --> 01:02:39.059
Doing any of those things helps promote the show, gets the word out and increases the chances of other runners finding the information that awesome guests like Gabby have given up their time to come and share with us.

01:02:39.059 --> 01:02:51.378
You can find us on Instagram, facebook and over at choosetoeenjoycom, so be sure to head over to any of those spots, check us out, say hello, drop us a message, suggest a topic if you have a moment.

01:02:51.378 --> 01:02:55.711
I really love getting all of those interactions from the community out there.

01:02:55.711 --> 01:03:05.735
Until then, take the quiz, go see what Gabby has to offer so that you can run long, run strong and keep choosing to endure.

01:03:05.735 --> 01:03:16.748
We'll see you next time.

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