Conquering Moab: Insider Story from Two-Time Moab 240 Finisher Casey Sanders

Announcer: 0:00

Discover Raw, inspiring stories from runners who've been right where you are. This is the Choose to Endure Ultra Running Podcast with your host he's English, not Australian Richard Gleave.

Richard: 0:19

Hello again, ultra Runner Friends. This is the Choose to Endure podcast dedicated to you, the back of the pack, ultra Runners, who are redefining possible one epic journey at a time. Today, I am super pleased to be joined by someone who's a veteran of multiple 50k and 50 mile races with many successes, including two Moab 240 finishes, which I think is absolutely incredible. He's also experienced a fair few DNFs along the way over the past seven years or so and has recently been featured in a how it All Started Run Try Mag article. He is with us today to talk about his most recent Moab conquest this past October. So a huge welcome and thank you very much for joining the Uba Kool, mr Casey Sanders. Casey, how's it going, man? I think the last time our pass crossed might have been early hours of the morning and a few thousand feet of a mountain, so this feels a whole lot more reasonable, for sure on a nice afternoon here. How are you doing, sir?

Casey: 1:26

I'm great Thank you for having me and yeah, I think the last time we crossed paths we were at like 10,000 feet of elevation in the Abayo Mountains, outside of Moab.

Richard: 1:38

So yeah, it was pretty chilly up there, I think, from what I recall. To kick us off, for folks who maybe haven't read the Run Try Mag article, maybe you can start us with a little bit about your background in ultra running and what initially sort of drew you to the sport.

Casey: 1:55

Yeah, you know I've never really been very athletic. I think the Run Try Bike Magazine article is titled from Last Picked in Gym Class to Ultra Runner, which is a pretty accurate portrayal. Definitely was not athletic growing up, was actually Last Picked in Gym Class in like junior high and high school Tough spot to be. Yeah, definitely, but you know it's interesting. I got older, I had kids, started a family and, you know, had gained a pretty unhealthy amount of weight. I think I was probably pushing up against 300 pounds. And then I had a neighbor who had a road bike and he was like you should take it for a spin and all of my cycling experience had been on you know, walmart, huffy bikes and whatever, and this guy was super into road biking so his bike was probably worth more than my car at the time and I took it for a spin around the block and was like, wow, I can actually go fast on a bike and it feels good. So I went out and got a road bike and you know, like an entry level, all aluminum road bike and started riding and I kind of got hooked on the cardio stuff and just started riding. You know I was riding like four or five miles a day, and then I started riding like 100 miles a week and was like oh my god, I'm losing weight. Oh man, this is great. Yeah, for sure, yeah. And then I live here in Utah and it's really cold in the winter. So winter rolled around and I put my bike on a trainer and started riding on Swift and just yeah. I just spent, you know, hours a day just grinding out miles on a video game basically, and lost a bunch of weight. I was kind of on the verge of a divorce at the time and I had told my ex-wife that I was going to run a marathon and she was like, right, you hate running. And I did. And I was like, yeah, but it seems like a good challenge. And so, you know, things kind of fell apart with my marriage at that point and I didn't run a marathon, it didn't happen, didn't really follow through with it and kind of was kicking myself about that. And then I found a 50K race out in Moab that I was like I'm going to run this. And so I signed up for the Arches Ultra and drove down to Moab and got the flu the night before, had a fever or was just dying. And I was like oh gosh, drove all the way, drove all the way to Moab. I'm going to do this thing, and so my first marathon was actually the Arches Ultra 50K, but it was great. I finished it. There were some challenges, obviously you know, being sick and all that stuff but I finished it and I kind of got hooked on it and the bike started collecting dust and started buying new running shoes too frequently after that. So yeah, that's kind of how. I fell into this pit of ultra running that I can't get out of now.

Richard: 5:02

It really is a pit too. Once you're in, it sort of starts dragging you down and you start thinking, oh, I can do that. Like, oh, maybe I can do a little bit more or maybe there's another challenge, and then before you know it, you're way down in there. So, yes, definitely feeling that one. So why the 50K in Moab? I don't know, my geography is not great, but that's a few hours from Salt Lake, right. So what was it about that 50K?

Casey: 5:31

I think it was just because the marathon idea I had in my head hadn't worked out and I really just wanted to try and do a marathon or try and do a 50K, something of the marathon distance or a little more. And, being winter in Utah, there wasn't many options and I was like, all right, what's the next nearest thing I can do? And so it really was just timing. Moab's a little bit warmer in the winter than Salt Lake City and three and a half hours not too long of a trek, so I'm very fortunate to be close to that area. The other nice thing about Moab and I almost don't want to say this because I don't know how many people are going to listen but the best time to go is in the winter because it's not packed with tourists, it's cold and inhospitable to many, but still, you know, it's not like you can't go out on the trails in the winter in Moab. And so if you want to go to Moab when there isn't, you know, geeks driving down the trails you're hiking on and there's not just tourists everywhere and a huge traffic jam on Main Street and the hotels are expensive, go in like February and you'll have the place to yourself and you can get a motel for 50 bucks a night.

Richard: 6:49

For sure, and I can attest to the challenges of driving around Moab at a busy time, you know, having been part of a crew out there. We took a wrong turn getting up to the Geyser Pass age station. We went right up the back way so we went all the way through all the jeeps and all the up the trails. So, yeah, we got a firsthand look at all of the. I mean there are just conga lines of jeeps out there. You know hitting, hitting those trails, so kind of fun. So that was your intro to to ultra running. Fast forward a good many years and here you are finishing up your second Moab 240 race, which I said I think that's incredible. So you know, right out to the gate, as far as sort of training or race preparation for your second go up Moab, how did that differ from the first and were there any specific areas? Maybe that you focused on going into the second race with knowledge of what transpired during the first one?

Casey: 7:48

Yeah, well, I'll give you some background on the first one. I tend to be a little bit delusional about what I'm capable of, and I think that that's maybe you have to be a little bit delusional to do a good thing.

Richard: 8:00

Yeah, yeah.

Casey: 8:01

Sure. So I had never run a hundred mile race and I saw, you know, an Instagram post about Moab 240 right after I had started running ultra marathons and really, you know, started taking running kind of seriously, and I was like, oh my God, this is a thing that exists. I had no idea. And so I, you know, just went out and registered for the triple crown of two hundreds without really researching it and was like I'll figure this out. And well, you just went all in, I did. I've been figuring it out since, to be honest, I have DNFed Bigfoot twice. So in 2019, when I did the Moab 240, I DNFed Bigfoot first, didn't start Tahoe and then, to be honest, you know, doing that like I think, I did 93 miles or something that Bigfoot. And then, you know, a month and a half, two months later, did Moab and I think that that big, you know, effort set me up for it pretty well. Then this year I DNFed the Bigfoot 200 again. You know I got like 75 miles in and that 75 mile run was a really good long run to have before the Moab 240.

Richard: 9:16

Lovely warm up that you had, yeah, yeah.

Casey: 9:21

And you know, and I think all of my other training wasn't too crazy. You know I really don't try to do too much volume. I think my my highest volume weeks are somewhere around 70 miles and you know I generally aim for 40 miles a week, just all the time. I sort of try to keep a philosophy that I should be capable of running a 50K at any time and I like it yeah.

Richard: 9:49

Yeah.

Casey: 9:49

And I feel like running 40 miles a week keeps me there. Yeah, I have a toddler right now, so it's a lot more challenging to get on the trails as much as I'd like. So I would say much of my training going into the Moab 240 this year was pushing a stroller with an unwieldy toddler from playground to playground on like our paved neighborhood trails, and stopping at playgrounds for a half hour and then going like let's move on to the next playground.

Richard: 10:18

So you know, I think it's absolutely awesome, in a fantastic way, that you can go and do training like that and still turn around and go finish a race like Moab 240. I mean, I think that just gives me and anybody else listening a whole lot of like oh, wow, yeah, you know, I don't have to go and spend 12 hours running a trail every Sunday in order to finish something like that. You know you can do it different ways for sure, yeah, I think you can absolutely do it.

Casey: 10:48

on marathon training, if you can train for a marathon, you can. You can run the Moab 240, you know, yeah, I think part of that, though, is that you have to be mentally prepared for the pain and suffering that come with the distance. Right, yeah, I mean. I mean it's, yeah, it's, it's not all, it's one of those things.

Richard: 11:11

You can do a whole lot of physical training right, but there's not many plans out there that touch on the mental side of stuff, and I think that's where certainly myself and others, maybe yourself too you kind of have to figure that stuff out as you go. It's a, it's a roller coaster out there and nobody really when I started doing these things, nobody prepped me for that. There was a lot of physical training stuff out there like you need to run this much, you need to, you know, do this many hours a week or whatever it was, but very little about the emotional roller coaster. That is one of these events, and so you start getting into these and you know it's a wild ride out there.

Casey: 11:50

So yeah it really is, and a lot of that is that you can't train for it. I mean, I think a lot of very successful ultra runners have had trauma in their lives. Maybe that has trained them for it, but really nothing will train you for. You know, people talk about the pain cave and stuff like that, but the only way to train for it is to go out and experience it and see if that's something you want to muscle through. You know.

Richard: 12:17

For sure, and I think that's that, to me, is one of the big benefits of doing these things too, because you know it is uncomfortable and and it's amazing how different people react when you put yourself in those situations. And I've run some long races, maybe not 240, but you can. You can look around at a lot of these races and just look at people and know whether they have a pretty good chance of getting to the end by their attitude. You know when they're 80, 100 miles in, are you, are you smiling, are you cracking a joke with somebody, or are you doing the death march already? And just you know just trudging it out. So, yeah, I think the emotional thing is definitely something to work on as part of doing these. So did you? You know, knowing that there was a lot of climbing, Did you do any for the second go around? Did you focus more on sort of strength or any climbing specific training, or did you just kind of stick to the playground and the paths?

Casey: 13:17

You know I stick to the playground and paths most of the time. When I do get the chance to have kind of a long weekend run, I'm very fortunate where I live there's some trails that are like a mile from my house. So I just run out of my house and, you know, head up to the trails and I can get, you know, a couple thousand feet on 10 miles or so. So I definitely do try to get more vertical training in. If I lived in a place like Kansas I would probably be suffering and have to have like an incline trainer in my garage or something. It certainly helps to have some climbing on your legs before you go into something like this. I'm not huge on strength training. I do try to do body weight exercises. You know I'll be like pushups and crunches and planking and stuff like that, but I'm not huge on it. I don't go to the gym I. You know I find that if I have a barrier to entry for anything it definitely messes me up if I had to drive to the gym or drive to the trail ahead.

Richard: 14:22

Yeah, like a 10 minute drive. Yeah, exactly 20 minutes, 20 minutes. It adds up over time and you're just like I just want to do something at home, like is there something I can do in my house for 10 minutes? You know some plyometrics or something.

Casey: 14:33

Right Plyometrics or some kind of you know body weight exercises in my office while I'm on a break from work, or something.

Richard: 14:40

Yeah, Pick up the toddler. You know, bench press the toddler.

Casey: 14:44

Definitely definitely.

Richard: 14:45

For sure. All right. So you've got your training. You did. You know you've worked through pre-race prep. So I'm excited to hear about your race Because, having been out there crewing, we got to see you at certain stages along the way. But I am I'm really excited to hear from your perspective how your race went Start to when we saw you crossing the finish line there, because I think there's probably an awful lot to unpack doing that. And it's been a few weeks and sometimes it takes a little while to get through, emotionally, a race like this. Oh, I was. Yeah, like, walk us through your race, what was it? So you're standing at the start line. You're ready to go. Are you nervous the second time? Are you kind of calm Because you've been there and done it? Where?

Casey: 15:33

are you at?

Richard: 15:33

at the start line.

Casey: 15:35

I'll start a little before the start line Because I think maybe a month and a half before the race I was out doing the Bigfoot race and going into that race I was anxious, overwhelmed with anxiety, just kind of a mess going into it. You know, I overthought everything because I think I had DNF that race before. I think I was even more nervous and then I did DNF the race again, you know, and I drove home from Washington and you sit there and start watching these Instagram posts of people that are out there doing the race that you just DNF and they're still in it and you're like man, maybe I shouldn't have DNF it, maybe I could still be out there. I don't know if you know who Sally McCrae is, oh, yeah, yeah. So I followed her on Instagram and I saw this video of her just like suffering the last 10 miles into the age stage or to the finish line of Bigfoot, and she was like I'm going to finish what I started. I'm going to follow through, she said, and I was like, oh man, it hit me right in the fills and I was like, okay, moab's coming up. I need to finish what I start. And so I set that, you know, as one of my priorities. Going into Moab was like, don't overthink it, don't let yourself build this thing up to be something that's impossible ahead of time. You know, like you know you can do this. You've done it before. But there's a lot of self doubt. Like, okay, I did it before, in 2019. That was like what, five years ago or something, yeah, yeah. And I've since then gotten married, I've had a baby. Maybe my training isn't as good as it was before, because now I have a baby, you know. And I had all these doubts, but I was like, no, I can do this and I'm going to finish where I start. So you know I didn't have a crew or Pacers. I went down there alone and just tried not to overthink it. Spending a night alone in a hotel before the race is dangerous for me, because that's putting me in a perfect position to just overthink things and get anxious and start freaking out. But I didn't, didn't get too anxious about it and and just thought like okay, follow through. That is what we're going to learn here on this. This trip is follow through and just keep moving forward. And you know there was a noon start time this year, which was new. Yeah, that's different, right?

Richard: 17:57

Yeah, that's a change.

Casey: 17:59

I thought this is going to be amazing. I'll sleep in. I'll be starting the race. Bell rested and, yeah, 5am on race day, I was up and wired. So, so I did not sleep in, went into it tired but that's okay, and I was grateful for the noon start time going through Lockhart Basin because that is just so exposed and you know you get sunburned and fried to a crisp out there and then you can't really be an F the race in that section anyway. So it's pretty difficult, until I think, mile 70 to drop from the Moab race because it's so remote, yeah, inaccessible, yeah, yeah, which which is a real blessing, because I think most people tend to kind of hit a wall around mile 60 or 70 and, you know, a little bit of despair might start setting in, things start hurting. You know people talk about marathon running how you tend to bonk or hit a wall at like mile 20 or 22. I think in the ultra marathon world, at least, my personal experience is like mile 60 or 70, that's when the wheels start to come off sometimes and you need to, you know, determine if you can patch it up and make it work or not, you know, yeah. So I'd say the first day of the race though it went great. I ran into your friend Agatha pretty early into the race and we we spent, I'd say, the first day together and the first night I think, yeah, I was feeling good and I think attitude, I tried to stay positive and I deal with pain by making jokes and saying stupid goofy stuff a lot and that helps a lot.

Richard: 19:40

So yeah, I think that first night was was that quite a chilly night, or was that the second night? One of them was really pretty, pretty chilly. Were you prepped for that going in, do you? You're familiar with that.

Casey: 19:52

Yeah, I'm pretty used to the cold and I don't mind it so much, you know. It was weird, though, because as you're going through these little valleys or whatever you know, you'll get like a wave of warm air and then a wave of very cold air. So it was sort of uncomfortable, I would say, but the first night wasn't wasn't necessarily the worst. I think the second night was a lot colder. You know the the third night. I went into that expecting it to be very cold, and just layered up and had all this stuff on, and it wasn't as cold as I expected. So I don't know, I'd say. I'd say the biggest challenge I had, though, was sleep, or the lack thereof.

Richard: 20:38

Had you, had you plan, you know, had you put together a pre-race plan for, okay, I'm going to sleep at Indian Creek and then I'm going to sleep at you know wherever, shay or something? Did it work out? Or were you just kind of like as in, when I get it, I'm taking it during the race?

Casey: 20:53

Well, I kind of had a rough plan going into it. I knew I was going to try to sleep for like an hour or two at Indian Creek and then, you know, sort of wing it from there. Unfortunately, indian Creek, I tried to sleep at the aid station. I think I frustrated Agatha because she wanted to leave and I was like, yeah, I'm getting up. But the problem with me in sleeping at an aid station is I tend to just lay there wanting to sleep, but then, you know, a runner comes in and they're ringing cowbells and people are talking, and so it's. I spent a lot more time trying to sleep than actually sleeping, unfortunately, and so I didn't get enough sleep. I didn't be in Creek and I just figured out like, all right, I'll have to wing it from here, and I sort of did. I'd say the best sleep I got throughout the race was just climbing into my mylar bivvy on the side of the trail and setting an alarm for five or ten minutes, and just those little five or ten minute power naps make a world of difference. I think after I ran into you in the Headed to Monticello Lake or something, yes, I curled up on the ground and yeah, I took a nap and I think you guys passed me at that point, but yeah, I had a few real good, you know, five, five or ten minute naps. That really are what I was living on for the whole race.

Richard: 22:17

So yeah, that's a lot to be said for a for a dirt nap to those. Those sort of ten minute. Get your head down and actually get some sleep, because I finally, funnily enough, it's easier to sleep out on a quiet trail Somewhere than it is, as you, as you say, at a lively age station with music going and lights and whatever people coming in, people leaving I mean, it's all over the place unless you've got an actual, because I saw a lot of those what do you call them? Like the motorhome RV type type thing and people would jump in those and I was like man, that should that. That looks to be awesome. Next time I'm doing a race like this I would look into that. But unless you have something like a car or one of those, yeah, I guess I can see how it would be difficult to sleep at an age station, for sure.

Casey: 23:00

Oh, absolutely so. The first time I did the mob race I had my wife crewing for me and and she had my car. And so when I would get to an aid station where I was planning to sleep you know she had a bed made up in the back I just crawled in there and got really good sleep. But you know, if you go into a tent with a Caught or an air mattress and there's, like other runners coming and going from the tent, rummaging through their bags and you know the cowbells going and people cheering when runners come in, it's just yeah. I'd say that sleeping on the side of the trail is drastically better than trying to sleep at an age station, unless you have a support vehicle.

Richard: 23:41

How did you find your bivvy bag? Did it work for you? Because I always like I always I don't know it I Like the idea of the trail naps, but getting that thing out and you know, getting in it and then trying to put the damn thing away again and I just I don't, I don't know, I don't know if it's worth it. So I don't know what your take on the baby bag napping is.

Casey: 24:03

This is the first time I actually tried the bivvy bag napping and I had those same concerns. I was like, well, I'm never, ever going to get the thing rolled back up into the you know tight little package it came in. But I will say they're shockingly warm. Really yeah for being a mylar space blanket. I mean, you look like a, you get in that thing and you feel like a Chipotle burrito. You know, yeah, especially when you know there's mountain lions and bears out there, you're like, let me just make myself a burrito, cool, but they're really quite warm. You get in it, super warm, zero padding of course. So you know, if you take your power nap on a pebble, that pebble will be there reminding you that you didn't find a suitable spot the entire time. The one big drawback to them is that they don't breathe. So you know, you, you climb into this plastic metal bag covered in sweat and then Perspire during your power nap and as soon as you get out, you're just way colder. So you, you got a plan on getting out of that bivvy sack and moving to to warm back up because they're they're pretty toasty inside. It's surprising. Yeah, they are.

Richard: 25:22

Yeah, I, and you know I've, I've the naps I've done have been without the baby bag because I just I'm like I'm not dealing with that issue. So it's good to know that they actually perform as as as stated and I will tell you. I will tell you, glad and I so Agatha was really keen to get her bag rolled up and stuff back in there. So it twice. Glenn and I did that as crew and we were. We got that. We got it down, man the pair, but it took two of us to like hold it and twist it and turn it you actually were able to get it twice, yeah, twice, but I would not advise doing that as a solo runner because you'd be spending an hour doing that. So I totally get it as just stuff, that thing in man and go.

Casey: 26:01

But yeah, yeah, my strategy is like roll it up into a big poofy ball and strap it on to the back of your pack and that's it survives, you know.

Richard: 26:09

You go. We're doing live tips here on the podcast for how to run with, how to use your baby bag in the real world, not, not like the advert when you buy it.

Casey: 26:20

Yeah, you know, speaking of gear, I tried something new this time that I had never done. I trained with it a little bit on the advice of there's kind of a veteran 200 mile runner named Phil Clark and you know there's a Facebook group for the thing and he'd he'd mentioned using a hip belt along with your running best. And I use a ultra spire gear Primarily and I have a ultra spire zygos pack. Yeah, an ultra spire speed go, oh is that with the double holster? Yeah, yeah, it's got two water bottle holes Holders, and it really is a great place to stow your trekking poles to in the front of it. So I Thought this is gonna be overkill, but it really was great. Because I sort of hate having the water bladder, I used it just for the, the real dry sections of the race and then ditched it. But but yeah, the the best with the running belt was a really great setup. I like the?

Richard: 27:29

Did you have the bottles in the belt or were you using the bottle pouches to stuff I don't know food or whatever else?

Casey: 27:35

No, I had two water bottles in the belt and then, you know, two water bottles in my best. So, yeah, yeah, or water bottles, which might be overkill for some people, but on the mob race there's really not a lot of opportunities to filter water. So you really have to carry a fair amount through some of those sections, and what I I think the real benefit of that was is that you have some of the weight on your hips, not on your shoulders the whole time. My shoulders get sore. I try to train with my vest, but most of my training is pushing a stroller, you know. So, yeah, wearing a, you get all the mandatory gear into a vest and it's pretty hefty. So, yeah, for sure, you know, just putting some of that weight on my hips was was a huge improvement. So I'd recommend going with the, the vest and the water belt.

Richard: 28:27

Nice combo there. I think that's a great, that's a great recommendation. And the other thing I can see there I don't know whether, whether you tried this or know, but when you've got four Individual bottles, you can mix and match what you're bringing with you, right? You could have a mix in one and three waters, or however you want to do it. So I think, from that perspective, that could be super useful too.

Casey: 28:47

Oh, absolutely yeah, because I like to have, you know, like liquid IV or tailwind or something and some of my bottles, and sometimes you know, if you're feeling a little sick you might just want more water, more electrolytes or you know one thing the destination trail races have started doing. That I love is they have like juice at the aid stations and you know, normally I get to an aid station I'm like give me some Coca-Cola or give me no ginger ale and but juices, pretty awesome to have. It's great to have some apple juice or something. So, yeah, it was nice to be able to mix it up and have a little variety.

Richard: 29:24

I Now talking aid stations. I know when we hit the aid stations there was a variety of stuff there. Are you somebody who you go all in for whatever you've got at the aid station, if it's a burger or cheese, quesadilla or whatever it is, do you go for that stuff? Or are you like no, I'm on Morton or Tailwind or whatever you know, and did it change during the race? Like did you ever kind of get sick of what you were doing and just go?

Casey: 29:49

yeah, yeah, you know I tend to stick with like bacon and cheese quesadillas or like breakfast burrito type things. Every aid station was like oh, do you want a cheeseburger? Oh, do you want a cheeseburger? And it terrified me the idea of eating a cheeseburger. It just seemed too heavy, too much.

Richard: 30:11

You just never know, in that I mean, I've done that before and paid for it.

Casey: 30:15

You know two miles later for sure, yeah, one time I ate a hot dog at a race and was like, oh my God, what have I done? And then other times I've eaten a hot dog at an aid station and been like that was manna from heaven. So you know, and I'd say, this time around I stuck to what I knew would be safe, which is like bacon and cheese, quesadillas with guacamole, and that's kind of a go-to of mine. But as the race wore on, later in the race you know three and four I started accepting the cheeseburgers.

Richard: 30:47

And I was glad I did. Yeah, for sure.

Casey: 30:49

Yeah, nighttime I was hitting the hot drinks pretty hard, like instant coffee with hot cocoa in it, or like the hot apple cider, or like broth with a little bit of instant mashed potatoes mixed in to make it creamy. When I'm cold I like the hot drinks, but during the day I started moving into the cheeseburger territory and it was well worth it.

Richard: 31:13

Yes, it's. I don't know it's dangerous for me that, but there are some distinct payoffs. I mean, when you get one or maybe two of those, that's also something you can eat on the move, so it's pretty easy to eat while you're going. So you can grab one and leave. You know, down the trail, but slightly dicey territory for me there.

Casey: 31:30

For sure. Yeah, and you know food on the go is great. I tend to have them pack me peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, you know, just stick in my pocket or something and that's great to have. I don't really like the gels and I get sort of burned out on the candy eventually. But gummy bears, I like gummy bears. I probably ate like 50 packs of gummy bears little individual Costco packets.

Richard: 31:56

Dude, I'm really picky when it comes to gummy bears, though they've got to be the gold Haribo gummy bears. I can't do any of the sort of knockoff gummy bears just don't work for me. And then when they get really cold, it's a total sidebar for gummy bears, because I really do like them and ultra racing has got me into gummy bears. But yeah, if you, if they're cold, they're really challenging to chew. So like if you get them at night and it's a cold night, I'm not sure I really want these because you got to chew on these things. Yeah your jaw gets so chewing on these gummy bears. But yeah, I'm a fan of gummy bears, but it's got to be Haribo for me.

Casey: 32:34

I think Haribo is definitely my preferred brand of gummy, but you know I'll take what I can get. I'm not too sure Total sidebar, yeah, no, that's if you want to talk about a weird sidebar. I was running with a woman Amber a good portion of the race, I'd say.

Richard: 32:52

Yes, yeah, I remember Amber, yeah.

Casey: 32:54

Yeah, once, you know, I ran probably the first portion of it with Agatha and once Glenn showed up, her husband, they kind of took off and there was no, no chance I was going to keep up with them. She was moving along at a really good clip clip and Glenn, you know, he's fast too, so they were kind of goners. And I started hanging out with Amber and she had some kind of like airhead chews or something like that, and she offered me one and I ate it and it was the best candy I think I've ever had. The moment was right, or something, and I was like, oh my God, airhead chews from Costco, I need to find these for my next race because, hit the spot.

Richard: 33:39

Wow. So they were like the chewy candy, I guess.

Casey: 33:41

if they were chews, yeah, it was like a chewy candy, but I don't know they were super good. But you know, when you're in a race certain things taste amazing and then you go home and try one and you're like that.

Richard: 33:55

No, what I was thinking, yeah, yeah for sure. So, while we're on the gear and equipment topic, was there, aside from the Ultra Spire waist pack, in addition to your regular Ultra Spire pack, was there any other gear that you took this time, that you didn't last time or upgraded that made a significant difference, good or bad, I suppose?

Casey: 34:19

to raise. I pretty much tried to stick with things. I know I really like Ultra shoes. There's been a lot of talk about their quality and durability going downhill but you know I went into this race with a brand new pair of Ultra Lone Peaks that I had never worn before, which is a little risky.

Announcer: 34:41

A little yeah.

Casey: 34:43

Yeah, but they were great and they held up really well.

Richard: 34:46

Had you trained in Lone Peaks, or I mean, were you familiar with Lone Peaks beforehand?

Casey: 34:52

I'd say I did most of my trail runs in Lone Peaks 6s and then I went and bought a pair of Lone Peaks 7s right before this and tried them on. I was like, well, they seem to fit about the same. I'll just take these.

Richard: 35:06

Man live dangerously. I like it, Just go for it Go for it.

Casey: 35:10

So a new model of Lone Peaks. I tried on the race and they worked out great. As far as other gear that I absolutely don't think I could do one of these without is the Lecky Poles with the shark grip gloves. Have you ever used those?

Richard: 35:26

I haven't. No, mine are the Black Diamond and the Graphite ones, but I see plenty of people using the Lecky Poles with the gloves.

Casey: 35:36

Yeah, the gloves are amazing because you just keep the gloves on and they have a little button you click on the top that detaches the glove from the pole. So they're sort of like quick release gloves that are just attached to your hands. I use those Black Diamond Z Poles sometimes and they're pretty good, but I feel like the glove makes all the difference. So the Lecky Shark Grip I think they're called, I don't know the Lecky Poles with the detachable gloves are amazing. I mean, they really are a game changer for me.

Richard: 36:13

And did you use those throughout? Or were you like, hey, I'm not going to use poles until I start climbing out of Indian Creek or I get up to Shea, or I'm not going to? Or are you just I'm just going to use them if I need, if I feel like I need them, I'm going to use them.

Casey: 36:27

I use them if I feel like I need them. Pretty much most of the race they're annoying to me on on Slick Rock. So, no, if you're on the Slick Rock, they don't really do much for you there because they're just clinking against the ground, but I'd say the vast majority of the race I use them. If I'm on some tricky stuff that I want to use my hands to keep from falling, I'll sell them. But yeah, I mean I'm definitely back of the pack much. I mean I think I finished with 15 minutes to spare.

Richard: 36:58

So it was epic, I have to tell you we were pushing it real close.

Casey: 37:05

Yeah, didn't get, you know, dfl, but we saw him behind us and had to run to keep him from passing us.

Richard: 37:14

So a bit of encouragement towards the end there. Yeah, so I think on our, on our trip through your, your, your Moab experience, I think we got halfway. So were there any kind of in between, there, in your 15 minutes to spare, where was your head Like? Were you up, were you down Like? Did you always feel like, yeah, I've fairly got this in the bag? Or was there a particular aid station where you were like I need to get here, otherwise? I'm not sure. I mean, we were up at Geyser Pass and we saw a lot of people you know get timed out at that particular aid station, including Angatha, but there are some really emotional crew and supporters up at that particular aid station, for instance. So was there any points along the way where you kind of felt like, oh, I'm behind schedule here, I really need to get booked in it. Or were you pretty comfortable cruising at a solid speed throughout?

Casey: 38:04

You know I would say I was pretty comfortable and confident that I would finish the race until Five or six miles out from Geyser Pass. There's a lot of climbing to get the Geyser Pass. I think we were all pretty sleep deprived. I was with Amber and a guy, doug, at that point and we were sort of in this like only three miles to the age station, only three miles to the age station for like six or seven, eight miles, maybe more. I think. We got off trail for about a mile, lost the trail as we were off, found our way back but yeah, I just sort of felt like I was never going to get to Geyser Pass. And then I started looking at the time and where I was and Was like, oh, there's a very real possibility that I'm gonna get cut for time at Geyser Pass. Now you know Debbie, she was crewing with you guys for Agatha. She was a frickin lifesaver. As I was coming in the Geyser Pass, there was Debbie on the trail and she was like you got to pick up the pace, buddy, sounds exactly like what you would have said to you. Yeah, she really got me motivated. She got me in and out of that aid station so quick. I got in there and she was like alright, you don't have time for Jack, let's take everything out of your, your pack, that's unnecessary light and the load. She was like a formula one pit crew, so she was literally just a blessing to have there and I was glad that I knew her at that point because I don't know if I Would have made it out of that age station as quickly as I did. But yeah, she got me just fixed up, made sure I had my mandatory gear and nothing else, basically had what I needed, got me a huge cheeseburger, well done with guacamole and all the stuff, and just booted me out of the aid station before I got timed out. And you know, I I remember Very painfully walking out of that aid station with a cheeseburger in my hand and just going to the nearest patch of shade I could find and sitting down and being like, oh my god, okay, we don't have much time here we're. Yeah, you got to figure this out and got to keep moving or I'm not gonna finish the race, and so it got a little sketchy. From that point on, the guys are past. Aid station is at the bottom of this long gravel road and it's just uphill from there. You just got to trek up this long kind of arduous gravel road for a while and and Amber and I were stuck together there and just started, you know, making it up the road and we ran into Doug who had a pacer, and I'd say Ambers Before thought to be like we got to see if Doug will let us go with them and hang out with this pacer, because we're not thinking clearly and we're not gonna finish this unless we can keep a certain pace. We need someone that can tell us what that pace is, because our math is gone crazy person math. Like her and I were talking and we're like, okay, well, we have to keep this pace. Well, no, we have. You know, we were trying to reason out like how fast we had to keep moving, if we could stop for a five minute nap, what we had to do to finish the race, and we were clearly not making sense to each other. So I'm very grateful that she was like let's catch up to Doug and ask if we can hang with him in his pacer. And we did. I met this guy, dustin, who was he had run the first, I don't know 60 or 70 miles of the race or something, and DNF'd Because he wasn't. You know, some people are like, some people are like if I'm not running the race, I expect of myself I'll drop. You know, yeah, as opposed to me, that's like I'll drop only if I'm like crying in the corner, which happens a lot. But so he had DNF and come out to pace and he had fresh legs, he had an awesome attitude. He was just, you know, keeping us on time and Like, okay, you guys have five minutes to sit here, but after that we're moving, we're going keep moving forward. And so I'd say, the last 40 miles of the race. He kept us right on track, where we needed to be and, yeah, having a pacer that last 40 miles was a game changer. You know, I don't know. I would have been stumbling around in the dark, hallucinating, probably without someone that had a you know the clarity to help guide us on the right speed and path. You know, Brilliant.

Richard: 42:50

Yeah, it was a warm day as well. I think that it was. I think it was pretty exposed out on that road going down or going to porcupine.

Casey: 42:58

I think that was a hot day We've kind of feeling at that point yeah, it was pretty hot. It was hot and kind of dusty. You know I sort of developed a cough over the race just from breathing in all the all the dust and so, yeah, definitely coughing a bunch and the heat and the dust, and I I hadn't planned my clothing very well in the drop bag so I was wearing like all dark colors, which did turn out great and but yeah, I mean it was. It was really nice to get to that, that porcupine remade station, and know that there was just 20 miles left and that last 20 miles those brutal you know you're, maybe the last 10 miles is is even more brutal because you're kind of coming down these cliffs and it's dark and you're very sleep deprived and you know it's probably pretty dangerous, I would say, as far as the exposure and, like you know you could, you could very easily hurt yourself or die Coming down that last section Before you hit the road. But yeah, it turned out really well. I mean I went into it thinking I don't need a crew or Pacers, I can do the soul on my own and I very possible I could have but Teaming up with some other runners and tend to, you know, getting the benefits of their amazing crew and Pacers was Definitely a godsend for me, so and I think that for me anyway, that's part of the ultra community.

Richard: 44:30

You know, that's why I like to do these things, because that I mean that's. I mean that's happened to me and others as well, and I think you know just the the willingness of other people's crews to To go outside of their runner when when they're able and to help out whomever or whenever. That's just fantastic and that doesn't happen, I don't think in in other sports. There is no crewing in marathons and it just the whole community is out there to help everybody get to the end, and I really love that about this. It's Aside from maybe the top couple of percent who are out there Actually racing, the thing. Most of us are just out there trying to get to the finish and I just love the fact that you can rely on other races or other people's paces or you know whomever crew from wherever. I think that's brilliant and totally unique in in in this sport?

Casey: 45:23

Oh for sure it's. It's very much an individual sport, if you're, maybe, you know, if you're immortal, like I am, it's it becomes more of a team sport. These longer races, you know, I always tend to meet people and you sort of it's like a team sport where you form your team as you go, yeah, which is really cool, and, you know, you create friendships and learn from other people along the way. And you know, yeah, maybe these very hard-core People that are winning these races or, you know, getting on the podium they're, they're way more dialed in than I am and maybe can dedicate more of their life to it than I can. But, yeah, I think it's it's pretty amazing. The Selflessness and, and you know, contributions from other crews and other runners too, you know it's, it's, it's pretty cool. I, the big takeaway for me From this race was that felt like everyone wanted me to succeed. There was crew and Pacers and volunteers that just they're out there, you know, donating their time, you know, so that I can have this amazing experience and it's, it's pretty cool, definitely makes me want to go out and volunteer at one of these races and kind of give back.

Richard: 46:38

Well, we'll, we'll get into future Casey here here in a minute.

Casey: 46:42

I do, I do want to go back.

Richard: 46:44

I wanted to go back real quick to a comment you made, which I think is a sort of a really experienced comment about your exit from the guys that pass aid station, because a lot of people would sit in the aid station and worry about how much time they've got left and then be looked watch. You know, looking at your watch and I gotta go, yeah. But I think it's a really smart move on your part and, just generally speaking, a very experienced move to get into the aid station, get what you need and leave and then sit down and figure out Okay, what am I gonna do, having already left, so I can't get timed out. It's those little things. I think that you learn over time. But I love that move. I think it's a super smart move and a great tip for anybody. Anybody listening. I think that's a wonderful, wonderful little tip, bit right there.

Casey: 47:31

Yeah, that's. That's the dangerous place to be, as in the aid station. First of all, you're comfortable. They're gonna bring you what you want. The volunteers are gonna bring you Delicious food and drinks to your heart's content. You know, you got your shoes off, so your feet are feeling good. You're sitting down on a comfortable chair. Those are very dangerous things if your goal is moving forward, right.

Richard: 47:52

Yes, for sure, for sure, and they're not gonna kick you out. They're unlikely. Potentially, most of them are. You need to leave out of it. But yeah but that's also where you DNF.

Casey: 48:02

You don't DNF on the side of the road or the side of the trail, you know, I mean there's yeah, there's hope when you're outside of the aid station. But when you're in an aid station, that's where you're gonna get a ride back to your hotel or whatever you know, and that's dangerous. If you want to finish one of these things, comfort is right. I find that I love a good sitting rock or a good sitting tree that's skipped over or whatever. You know. If I find a nice chair-shaped rock out there, I'm usually very drawn to it and we'll sit down on it and it's like man, this sitting feels amazing. But once I start to feel comfortable, that's when it's time to remind myself like you gotta move.

Richard: 48:45

Yeah, we're still gonna race to get through here. Yeah.

Casey: 48:48

Yeah, the clock is ticking for sure. Yeah, I mean, getting in and out of the aid stations is always a struggle for me. I think if I could work to get better at that, I'd probably finish one of these things a lot faster. But yeah, I, yeah, if I'd stayed in that aid station.

Richard: 49:04

I am curious too, casey, you talk about maybe finish one or two of these. So I you know, when you go stalk the ultra, sign up as most of us do for each other. So you've done a lot of 50k in 50 milers and then this total polar opposite of 240 miles like this there's. Are you thinking about an in-between at any point, or are you just gonna do the 50s and Throw in these 240s?

Casey: 49:28

Well, my next race is a 50 miler in February, so I'm looking forward to that. What I like about a 50k or 50 miler is I'm confident in it. You know, I think a lot of these races, you go into them and if there's, you know it's, it's a little more. I Don't know. I don't want to say more fun, because it's not. It's a different experience when you're confident you can finish it, because then you're more focused on like, how fast can I finish it or how well will I feel after finishing this race.

Richard: 50:00

Yeah, the fear of not finishing is is not there as much.

Casey: 50:04

There are some 50k's of 50 miles, but yeah, generally speaking for sure for sure, I have not ever DNF to 50k or a 50 miler yet. I'll say so. So I'm generally confident, going into one of those, that I can at least finish it and and then I can try to more, put more focus on, like, trying to do better or maybe set a better time or maybe have a better time With the, the bigger distance, the 200 milers. Based on my track record, there's a very good chance I will fell. There's a very real possibility of failure and I'm doing something that's really outside of my comfort zone and I love that too. It's a completely different kind of challenge. Yeah, I really like running half marathons as well, on the road gasp, but like running a half marathon, you know you get a medal at the end, which is kind of cool, I guess, and I can go run a half marathon. They start super early in the morning. Usually I can be home having run a race, feeling good about doing something and you know get on with the day, getting out of bed, having breakfast and they're not like where have you been for five days now?

Richard: 51:17

Yeah, exactly, there's a little bit of that for me too. Like, when you go and do these big races, it takes a lot of planning and time away and you know there's people behind the scenes then that have to fill in when you're not there for literally five days in some of these cases.

Casey: 51:33

So yeah, yeah, my wife had to be a single mother for five days while I was at Moab, having a great experience, you know, and so that's you know. I mean you talk about the sacrifice of crews and Pacers and all these things. Yeah, my wife got to stare at a dot on a map, moving at two miles an hour for five days, worrying you know a little of the night.

Richard: 51:57

I go, it hasn't moved, let's go. Yeah, I'm familiar. I do like the half marathons, though they're just long enough to still be somewhat challenging in mileage and time, but not long enough to really like batter you to where you know marathons and beyond. You're like I need some time to recover here, so I don't know, it depends on how I mean.

Casey: 52:20

yeah, I think that I did a half marathon this spring and I set a personal record. Oh, congratulations.

Richard: 52:27

I was pretty quick.

Casey: 52:28

Yeah, I think it was like an hour and 25 minutes or something.

Richard: 52:32

Oh my gosh. So incredibly fast, that's pretty quick.

Casey: 52:34

That's really quick.

Richard: 52:35

It was all downhill.

Casey: 52:36

But yeah, it was quick, and then I couldn't walk up or down my stairs for three or four days afterward, you know, and if you contrast that with the Moab 240, after that race I was walking around just fine, which is weird, right.

Richard: 52:51

Yeah, so let's get so. Talking of recovery. So what is your recovery? Do you have a strategy for recovery or is it just like do you go spa day or I don't know? What is your recovery? Look like I don't know. You know big races.

Casey: 53:05

I like a good bath or a good cold shower. I try to keep moving, but like slower, like active recovery type stuff. I think I was out going for a walk the next day for a couple of miles and took my you know, a two year old on a little hike to go look for fall leaves, stuff like that, and I think maybe a week and a half, two weeks later I ran an unofficial marathon here. So that was kind of stupid but fun. Wow, that's bold, it has this. Well, they have this thing called a whaleathon. There's a big whale statue in the middle of a roundabout, a whale In downtown.

Richard: 53:42

Like a whale. A whale, a blue whale.

Casey: 53:44

Yeah, a whale. Okay, like a life-size blue whale statue which is out of place for Salt Lake.

Richard: 53:50

That was my very next question, Like what is this blue whale statue doing in the middle of Salt Lake?

Casey: 53:55

I don't know Well yeah, and I mean I think the city councilor, whoever put it there, and people were sort of like scratching their heads like why is there a giant blue whale statue when we're, you know, a thousand miles from the ocean? But the whale ushered in like one of the best snow seasons we've had and so there's kind of hail, the whale as a thing. Some people started doing a whaleathon. It's in the middle of a roundabout, so it's a 0.04 mile loop around the whale and a whaleathon is you do like 600 and something laps around the whale. And so I thought you know I better get on that while I still. I mean, you know, after you do a 240 mile race, the idea of doing 26 miles isn't so daunting, you know for a couple of weeks. You're like oh, 26 miles, that's like the distance between an age station, kind of extra. And so I went out there and did like 638 laps around the whale Definitely not my fastest marathon. I took my time, did it at night so it was a little cooler. But yeah, I've just tried to get right back into my 40 miles a week after about two weeks of taking it kind of easy. I think the biggest issue I've had is just my feet sort of falling apart. You know I had a few blisters, nothing crazy, but it's like my feet have decided to shed a whole layer of skin since the race. It's been about a month and a half now. I'm still picking dead skin off my feet to my wife's dismay.

Richard: 55:24

Wow Ha, Doing it in the living room while you're watching TV or whatever you know, oh, she's absolutely like.

Casey: 55:32

You need to leave and do that somewhere else Elsewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure I've had those conversations myself.

Richard: 55:38

yes, Been the recipient of the order to leave.

Announcer: 55:42

Did you have?

Richard: 55:43

any other niggles throughout the race? Was the feet the major kind of thing for you, or was there any other? Like knees, I know when I up hills I'm great with. I can go uphill all day long, but downhill for me is a real challenge. It's just I had a lot of rugby growing up as a kid and so my knees are just all kinds of shot out of proportion. So I have a challenge going downhill with knees. How about you? What did you feel?

Casey: 56:13

I tend to have knee trouble on the downhills as well, so I am a lot more conservative with going downhill. A lot of people are like run the downhills and I'm like, oh, I'll try to run the uphill and walk downhill. But my knees did great. Surprisingly, I had a kind of a hip sort of thing going on most of the race, but I had a hip. I don't know if it's like a hip tightness in the muscle or something. I had gone to a physical therapist before the Bigfoot race and had him look at it and they were like, yeah, I need to do more stretching. And so I've kind of introduced a little bit more stretching into my recovery and race prep. I'm not sticking with it, but I've at least learned some stretches that help. So I had a little hip stiffness throughout the race, but I started the race with that and it just kind of got worse as the race went on. Of course, but I wouldn't. I mean, surprisingly, my body held up better this race than it has many of my other races in the past. So I think a lot of that has to do with just the slower pace that I was going. I mean, I averaged around two miles an hour. So a casual walk really, and I think slowing down makes a massive difference. A lot of times I'll go out on even a 50K a little too hot and then I have trouble with nutrition and then I have trouble with cramps or knee and hip pain or foot pain. But I started this race pretty slow and kept a slow pace the whole time and that made a world of difference for all of the things, for being able to eat cheeseburgers at the end of the race and being able to eat a lot more and drink a lot more without feeling sick and just not beating myself up. I think.

Richard: 58:06

Yeah, yeah, the lesser impact and less sort of. I mean there's obviously some digestive challenges when you go in 200 miles. It's 200 miles, but yeah, the more you keep yourself eating real food and a lot of it, I think, the better your chances are of finishing for sure, yeah, so we touched on future. Casey, what other races do you have coming up? Is Moab your race now Like? Is this it, or is there a triple Moab coming up? What about, I think you? I saw you signed up for a Tahoe this go around, or next year, cocodona, maybe, I don't know. What are your future?

Casey: 58:44

plans. Cocodona looks amazing. I'd love to try that. So this year I'm going to try to. So I've tried to do the triple crown of 200s several years now. Since that first year I've learned a lot of things about getting to the start line being so hard logistically. I have six children, I have a full-time job, I have a lot in my life, and so to prioritize the triple crown of 200s is very difficult. The COVID thing put a damper on things. Illnesses and family obligations I've all put a damper on it. I have many reasons and excuses for why I'm still not completed the triple crown of 200s, but it's definitely a big goal of mine. This year I'm not going to go for it. I'm going to do the Tahoe 200 in June, which I've never actually started, and so I'm really looking forward to that race and I am going to try to get into the Bear 100 or the Wasatch 100. Right, excellent. I think those 100 mile races are. They're a different kind of challenge than a 200. You have a much tighter cutoff time. You really got to move a little quicker.

Richard: 1:00:02

Yeah, there's less room for error, I would say, or less room to recover if you make an error, or on 200s, five days, right, but 100? No, you got like 30, probably 34 hours max, exactly.

Casey: 1:00:17

You can really fast pack Moab 240 and sleep and hang out in the age station and eat a cheeseburger and those things. But 100 mile race is a lot different. So I'd like to finish 100 miler, which I've never done. I'd like to do this 50 miler I have in the spring Well, I guess February is the middle of winter. But yeah, I only have like three races on my agenda for the year and that's the Red Hot 50 Miler, and Moab, which they've never done, a 50 mile version of that race. So I'm looking forward to that. Excellent. Going to try to get into the Bear or the Wasatch and the Tahoe 200. So maybe the year after that or the following year I'll be able to go out for the Triple Crown of 200s again, or maybe try the Cocodona. I'd like to someday maybe do something like Ball State I don't know if you're familiar with that.

Richard: 1:01:12

Yes, absolutely For sure.

Casey: 1:01:13

I mean, they give you 10 days or something so.

Richard: 1:01:19

I love the large ones. There's another race out there called the Fools 409, which is a 400-mile version. Same kind of deal. It's sort of a do-it-yourself. It's across New York State oh, that sounds interesting Right along the lake. I forget the lake is Ontario, whichever lake that is at the top of New York State, and then it goes into the Adirondacks and over the Adirondacks and finishes on the border with Vermont. But yeah, it's exactly the same kind of style as Ball State, the sort of do-it-yourself you're on your own. It's on a road, going town to town, making your own way. I love those styles of races, I think very different.

Casey: 1:02:00

There's a lot more big races coming out now. I mean there's this mighty Gallatin race. That's sort of a stage race that's really interesting looking. And I mean I found this race on UltraSignUp. I don't know how real it is even, but it's like Salt to Sulfur. It's like a 420-mile race from Salt Lake to West Yellowstone or something like that. Wow, but it's like $40 to register and they're like what do you get? Nothing, you know it's self-supported. Yes, that sounds kind of cool, but yes, I mean I like the idea of the longer distances. Ultimately, I'm in it for the experience and kind of proving to myself that some regular dude that wasn't ever super athletic can still do crazy stuff and have a great experience and learn and grow.

Richard: 1:02:55

I love it and that's definitely why I'm into it. I know there's a whole bunch of other folks thinking the exact same way. It's all about the journey and growth and the challenge I mean for me. I think we live in a world where everything is about convenience. How convenient is it that I can order food off an app on my phone and somebody comes and delivers it to the house? You know, that's why. I mean it's great, but I don't know that you learn anything about yourself like that when is the challenge of life and that's so, that's. I'm with you. I think signing up for these big ones is more of a growth opportunity and something to challenge, and I love the idea that you may not finish this. I mean, it's definitely not a guarantee that you'll even finish, Never mind, you know, post a good time or anything. It's just like you know there's a very real chance you won't finish this race, and so I love the. I love that challenge and you know, that's kind of why I do these things and, you know, help others do these things too. It's really cool. So, yeah, so I appreciate you being with us today. Casey, as we wrap up pretty awesome conversation Definitely want to want to take a minute to say thanks for joining us. You know your journey through not one, but two Moab 2-4 of Steve Races Pretty inspirational and obviously your passion for ultra running shines through. Before we sign off, Do you do you have any final thoughts or words of wisdom you would share with anybody listening who might be considering stepping into the world of ultra running?

Casey: 1:04:25

Yeah, I think I kind of have this philosophy that anybody who is capable of you know walking up or down a flight of stairs or moving their body, can do Way bigger things than they think. Don't let you know fear of failure hold you back, and you should definitely aim for things that seem out of your reach, because they're probably more within your reach than you realize.

Richard: 1:04:52

Brilliant. Well. Thank you again, casey, really appreciate the time To anybody listening. Thanks for tuning in. I hope today's episode has inspired you, whether you're a seasoned runner, a beginner or just somebody fascinated by the capabilities of the human mind and spirit. It definitely remember. As Casey alluded to, it's about setting your own pace and embracing the journey, not really about the distance, although it is awesome to finish a 240 mile race and brag about it down the pub, you know. So don't forget to follow the podcast for more inspiring stories and conversations. You can find us on social media or also out there at choose to endurecom, so be sure to head over there if you have a moment. Once again, casey, thanks. Really appreciate you taking the time to be with us. Huge congrats on the just amazing achievement at Moab 240. And I know I for one will be eagerly watching when you next put your running shoes on. I'll be the dot watcher seeing where you're going. So for now, this is Richard Gleeve and Casey Sanders signing off. Until next time, remember to run long, run strong and keep choosing to endure.

Announcer: 1:06:05

Thanks for running with us at the.

Richard: 1:06:07

Choose to.

Announcer: 1:06:07

Endure podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. We had a blast. If you did, make sure to like rate and review, and we'll be back soon. Keep racking up the miles and the stories and we'll catch you at the next trailhead. Until then, remember to run long, run strong.