Caveman Challenge: Jeff Colgrove of Caveman Endurance shares a look at his BRAND NEW RACE in Denison, TX!

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Hello again and welcome If this is your first time with us.

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Thank you for stopping by.

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You're listening to Choose to Endure, the show dedicated to the non-elite runners, where we share stories, interviews, gear and training tips specific to the tail-end heroes of the Ultra Universe.

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If you haven't had a moment to do so yet, please consider heading over to your favorite podcast app hit, follow, rate the show and, if you're getting something of value, maybe even leave a review too.

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My name is Richard Gleave.

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I've been running ultras now since 2017.

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I have taken on and finished numerous ultra distances, all the way up through 220 miles, and I am unashamedly a member of the back of the pack, just like you guys.

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Today, I am chatting with the excellent Mr Jeff Colgrove.

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Jeff has been running ultramarathons for 17 years, a journey that started with a half marathon and rapidly escalated, as it tends to do, to 50k's, 50 milers and multiple hundred mile races.

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His endurance feats so far have peaked at an impressive 226 miles during the 2022 Jackalope 100 hour event, and he is still on the quest, like many of us, for a sub-24-hour 100-mile finish.

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Beyond his own running adventures, Jeff has recently turned a long-held dream into reality by organizing his own race at his home trail.

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Today, he's here to share what he's learned from both sides of the race tape as a competitor and now as a race director.

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So sit tight, we'll be right back quicker than a squirrel at a nut sale.

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Discover raw, inspiring stories from runners who've been right where you are.

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This is the Choose to Endure Ultra Running Podcast with your host he's English, not Australian Richard Gleave.

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So, jeff, welcome to the show.

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Thank you so much for sparing a little bit of your probably very busy time to talk to us today.

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How are you doing, sir?

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Doing well and good day, mate.

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I'm sorry I had to throw that in.

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It makes it very clear that you're British and not Australian.

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You know I have to spell it out because I get asked that so often that I felt like I just had to be clear about that.

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I have nothing against my Australian friends whatsoever, but you've got to be from where you're from right.

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Oh yeah, but no, I'm doing good.

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Thanks for having me on.

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I'm excited to be here.

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Brilliant, thank you.

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So we heard a little in your bio there and, checking out your ultra sign-up history, it definitely looks like you've been running for quite a while in the ultra scene.

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Can you give us a bit more about your background in running and what initially drew you to the sport?

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And Can you give us a bit more about your background in running and what initially drew you to the sport and what kind of races do you like to run?

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Sure, I got into running.

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I ran in high school and then, as you do a lot of people do, once you get out of there you get into life and you get out of the habit or you get out of fitness.

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And then, when I was 29, it was pretty heavy at that moment my heaviest and it was time to lose some weight and do something about it, and so running became that thing that helped me do that and found out that I really liked running.

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And while I was getting the weight off of me, there was a half marathon.

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The Oklahoma City half was the first race that I ever did in 2007.

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And I remember I finished that and I was mad because the marathoners kept going ahead of me and I had to turn around.

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And so I'm competitive.

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I don't like when people are doing more than I am.

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So the next year I jumped right into the full marathon and I thought that was it.

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I'm like like 26.2 is a very specific distance and I figured that's because scientists or someone had studied this out, because I felt like I was going to die and I was confident that if you went another step, then that was it.

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So I thought a marathon was it and I was like I will never do another one of these.

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And then so I did do another marathon, cow town in 2010.

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And then, while I was out there, I see a guy that's I'm about to turn around and head back, and I see him wearing an ultra marathon bib.

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And I'm start talking with him Like what are you, what are you doing, what is this?

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And he's like, well, you're about to turn around and I'm going to keep going.

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I'm going to run 31 miles.

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And I asked him.

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I said are you going to die?

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He goes.

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I sure hope not.

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So then that that had my curiosity.

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So I started looking it up and did a 31 miler out at Surfside beach this was in 2010, I guess it was as well, or or 20, somewhere in there.

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And uh, I, I did the surfside beach 50k and that was that, was it from there.

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So I just started looking into how much further do people go and found out 50 mile, 100 miles, and and then, once I got to 100, I was convinced I will never do anything further than that.

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It was the most miserable experience of my life.

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I had the Pumpkin Holler 100 in Tahlequah in 2012 in Tahlequah, oklahoma, and I was wrecked after that.

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So I thought I knew what I was doing, but found out really quick I didn't.

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And then, from there, though, I let some some time pass and I thought, you know, I 26 hours, I wanted 24 sub 24.

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So I thought that's not that far off, right.

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So I've been chasing it ever since.

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And then, on top of that, I just uh, want to see how far I can go with, want to see how far I can go with without dying, I guess, and so far it's been 226.

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And and along the way, you know, you just get caught up in the trail community.

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You're seeing a lot of the same people at these races.

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And then, and what was it?

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Jaglobe?

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In 2019, I got into the group with, got in with Trott and got to meet a lot of the people there, and and so developed a lot of really good friendships with that group.

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And and uh, now here we are.

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I haven't run a race since 2022, since that 100 hour jackalope, but I would say my favorite distance is a hundred hour or not a hundred hour.

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100miler is my favorite distance, but my favorite style and favorite type of format is probably the timed aspect of you have 100 hours.

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Let's see what you can do in that amount of time.

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Well, I will say 26 hours to run 100 miles is pretty decent at least in my mind.

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That's not bad at all.

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Just so we're getting that out there.

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Don't get me wrong.

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I was happy with that.

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There was.

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I'm not disappointed I'm never disappointed to run 100 miles.

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I can tell you that um.

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But just that elusive time that I want to get, but somewhere in my around mile 80 my body just says I don't think this is gonna happen for you and yeah no, yeah.

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Well, I'm curious about your jackalopes, because you've had a couple of really good efforts down at jackalope doing, doing the timed races there in particular.

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I mean I think you've had two 200 plus mile events one in 2020 and then the one you were talking about in the bio, the 20 226 in 2022?

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Gosh, try saying that fast.

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Which one of those are you more proud of?

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I would say the the 208 I did in the 72 hours in 2019, that's the one that or in 2020 sorry, that's the one I'm more proud of.

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I mean because I I just had the goal of 200 miles.

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I hit 208 and 72, and so I didn't think I would go back after that.

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I've like 200 miles, that's the goal.

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I did it.

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And then he upped the rob, up the time limit to 100 hours and I was like, well, another day, in four hours, what can I do with that?

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You know, I think you can squeeze another 100 miles in there, right, and so I signed up for it and 2021 got snowed out, which was crazy.

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And then we went back out there for 20 and 22 and it 300 was the goal and it was nowhere close.

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So it was, the weather was windy, rainy, wintry mix the entire time and I ended up.

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I did end up hitting 226 and setting a distance pr, but well short of 300, but again, never upset at that.

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But it's always a good time and that's the year I really met a lot of good people and it's been a lot of developed a lot of good friendships out there.

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I mean, it's like the group that I have now.

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We still talk to this day and and just, yeah, have a good time with it.

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Yeah, that's, if there ever was a party race, that's probably it right there for sure.

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Yeah, you know, with all the stories that come out of jackalope, fantastic.

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So you, you've actually hit 200 miles twice in the timed event once in the 72 hour and once a little bit more in the 100 hours.

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So for me that's really really good, and I know we're here to talk about your race and we will get to that in a minute.

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But I'm curious, on on, on your strategy for that, if you wouldn't mind sharing, kind of okay, how do you plan to go 200 miles at a timed race like that in either 72 or or a hundred hours?

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What's your, what's your philosophy?

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I'm probably not the best person to ask about that.

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I I I went into it with a the first year where I didn't hit 200.

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I had more of a plan than I did the other two years, honestly, but it was a terrible plan.

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You know, like I said, I'm chasing that sub 24.

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So I thought if you hit 100 miles in under 24 hours you get, you know, another two days to throw down another 100.

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I mean, that seems pretty manageable, sounds logical.

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It sounds logical, but logic went out the window very quickly.

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I ended up sleeping 14 hours straight that first time and had to get re-energized and revived pretty much to get the 182 that year.

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But the next year, when I did hit 200, it was just, you know, don't try and go out for a sub 24.

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Just be smart about it.

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And just took a nice I ran, tried to hold I think it was probably, you know, 12 to 13 minute mile, uh minute miles for as long as I could and and did that for a while and then just eventually started walking and talking with people and just enjoying it more and did a lot more time on my feet just training for it.

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Just spent a lot, uh, a lot of time on the weekends, just overnights, and I did it too out at Waterloo where my race will be held.

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There's a dam and it's 0.3 miles out and 0.3 back.

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So I spent some time just kind of getting into that mental mindset of just doing the same thing over and over and over and not getting tired of it.

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So I would go out to the dam and just go back and forth hour upon hour and just to break my mindset, get to the mindset to where I wouldn't break down mentally and so, yeah, I didn't go into it with much of a distance.

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For each day plan, I think that year that I did 208, I did 70 the first day, 50 the second day and 88 the last day.

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So not quite how I would probably do that again either, but it worked out through sandbagging some miles for the.

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Uh, for the final day, a bit of a show.

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Showboat 88.

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Oh yeah, on the last day, I like it.

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Yeah, very nice.

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Yeah, did you have a sleep strategy within that?

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I know you're talking pacing, but did you plan to sleep or did you just go for it and figure it out as you went?

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maybe 30 minutes to an hour and then get up, and then the next one, take a longer nap overnight, couple hours, and then get up and do it all over again for another 25 to 50 miles.

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Just as the race goes on, sleep becomes more of a necessity, I guess, or more of a want, and so I try not to sleep too much in the opening of it and wait until I get really tired, and then sleep as it comes up and just as the fatigue hits.

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But try not to do it too much, which I don't know.

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It's a weird game.

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I don't even know how you prepare for it or a real strategy to go at it.

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People have them, but I'm just kind of the guy that's just like let's go out there and see what happens.

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You know you can run a long ways, just just go do it this is yeah, and I think at times not having a plan, not having a strategy to stress about, is probably a really good strategy.

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You, just because you can pivot and adapt really quickly, because you're not beholden to, you're not trying to stick to some kind of pace plan or I've definitely got to sleep here, or whatever, just you just kind of roll with it and go.

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So in of itself, that may be a strategy and quite a good one, and I would say what I focus more on, what I do plan, is when I'm going to eat and what I'm going to drink.

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You know, all right, I'm going to do whenever I get four miles, every four miles it should be an hour or so, somewhere in that time frame, and I'll drink water on this one and then the next four I'll go around and I'm gonna grab something salty and maybe a gatorade or something, and alternating water, alternating electrolytes, alternating salts, alternating sweets, and and that's that's what I focus more on is making sure that I have the calories, making sure I have the hydration, and and sleep will come when it's supposed to, and well, and so it may have been during one of these out and backs, I'm not sure, but when was it?

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Maybe it wasn't even during a race, but when did you get the idea that you might want to potentially put on and organize your own race?

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So I've been out in this area for I've been in Denison for 10 years and the trail's been out there the whole time but it's grown a lot.

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It was it was a mile and a half trail, I think when I first got here, and it was a mile and a half of established trail.

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There was still.

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There were little offshoots and stuff, but they really didn't lead to a whole lot of places or they would become overgrown.

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But since then, I mean, it's grown each year and now there's almost nine miles of trail out here.

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And so it was they, and they did do a 5k and a 10k every year up until 2020.

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And when 2020 hit, it just never came back.

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But I would say that's when I started daydreaming about it.

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I would spend, I mean, 2020, we had nothing to do.

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So I was out there almost every day and I would run my laps and just looking around and thinking, okay, I understand why they did a 5K and a 10K when they did it, because they didn't have a lot to offer, but this trail has a lot more now.

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If you've got nine miles of trail trail, you can cover a pretty good distance with some loops, and so it got in my head then to you know, I think this, it could hold a bigger race than what they were putting on.

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And then they never brought their race back.

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But then life started to pick back up, got busy working again and then changed career fields there a couple years ago and so just been busy and then it was again.

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I guess it was the beginning or the end of last year.

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I was just out there running and and I it just hit me again, you know, they haven't put a race on out here.

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I see more and more people out here running, yeah, here lately.

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So why couldn't we host a race?

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Why wouldn't this be able to be done?

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And I started to think if I don't do it, am I going to look back a few years down the road and go?

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I wonder what would have happened?

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Would it have been any good?

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Would it have been successful?

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So I just started.

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I talked to my wife about it and she said you know, if you think this can, if you think you can do it, do it.

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And so I started putting it out there to other people to almost hold myself accountable.

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I mean I can.

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If I would have just kept it to myself, I would have talked myself out of it, probably groups of friends hey, here's what I'm thinking about.

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And they would start asking about it Well, are you going to do it or not?

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So I started reaching out to a couple of race directors and picking their brains and asking a lot of questions and then finally I just I think it was February I just decided, you know, it's an hour, it's probably never.

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So started walking through the steps to get it live.

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And here we are.

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October.

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Yeah, there's nothing like peer pressure to get you into something, is there right?

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I'm a victim of that.

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So much I'm the guy that if you say I dare you to do this, I'm probably going to do it.

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So yeah, and if there's that pressure there, I'm definitely it's going to make me follow through a lot easier.

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There's that pressure there, I'm definitely it's going to make me follow through a lot easier.

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I'm sure the folks at Jackalope will be very interested to hear that the next time you show up with your group of hundred hundred hour friends, They'll be lined up with stuff to dare oh.

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I don't need to tell them, they kind of know.

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So the name of the race is the Caveman Challenge and you've kind of set up your company, Caveman Endurance, to oversee that and it's at, for those listening, Waterloo Lake Park, which is up where you're at in Denison, Texas, just north of Dallas there, Dallas there.

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So take us through Waterloo Lake Park.

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You talk very passionately about the park and where you run.

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What is it about that park that you think makes for a cool race?

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What are some of the features there that people will find when they show up and are going around?

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So it's.

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I mean it's Waterloo Lake.

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I mean the lake is nothing spectacular, you can run around it, so it's not huge, but it's a pretty lake.

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It mean the lake is nothing spectacular, you can run around it, so it's not huge, but it's a pretty lake.

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It's got it on the backside of the trail where you first enter into the trees.

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When you head up the first couple of hills you're looking over some cliffs that overlook the lake and just give you some pretty spectacular views of the entire park and a severe drop off of that cliff, nothing you have to worry about falling off of, but just gives you some good scenery.

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There, the most unique feature is the cave, and that's how I came up with the name.

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I'm like you know the city when they put it on, they called theirs the Battle for Waterloo and I'm like I get where they.

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They got that and and I understand it, but like that doesn't.

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I don't know it didn't.

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It wasn't catchy enough for me.

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I guess I don't know, and so I was.

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I was every time I ran by this cave.

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I mean it's just a.

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It's not a deep cave, it's just a, a mouth of a cave that probably goes about 10 or 15 feet in and you run by this all the time.

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And as I started to think about putting this on and decided to, I'm like you know, caveman challenge I mean, and why wouldn't you see a caveman out here?

00:19:51.544 --> 00:19:53.782
The cave is the coolest part of this trail.

00:19:53.782 --> 00:19:56.002
We need to incorporate it in some way.

00:19:56.002 --> 00:20:05.150
And so caveman challenge was born from that feature of the cave, and then caveman Endurance the company name just came right off of that as well.

00:20:05.150 --> 00:20:09.925
Caveman had the endurance that they had to have.

00:20:09.925 --> 00:20:14.205
Endurance it was you have endurance or you don't eat, you don't survive.

00:20:14.205 --> 00:20:15.457
And so it's a pretty.

00:20:15.457 --> 00:20:21.548
It sounded like a pretty logical thing to have the caveman endurance and do the caveman challenge.

00:20:22.036 --> 00:20:23.798
But the course, I mean, it has everything.

00:20:23.798 --> 00:20:47.010
It has flat, technical sections, has some wide, open fields to run through, plenty of rocks, leased rocks, a little bit of sam's not too much, thankfully a lot of roots in some areas and, uh, and a couple of hills Nothing too crazy that would make you rethink your life as you're climbing up them or anything.

00:20:47.010 --> 00:20:50.806
The biggest hill that you would have to encounter in the race you're going to be heading down it.

00:20:50.806 --> 00:20:53.243
So you have that going for you.

00:20:53.243 --> 00:20:58.646
But, yeah, and there's parks on both ends of the course as well.

00:20:58.646 --> 00:21:13.509
So if you have your family out there, there's places for kids to play on the top of the hill where the start finish line is, and then down at the bottom of the hill at a different park area, there's a walking track and it has a dog park, kids park, horseshoe pits.

00:21:13.509 --> 00:21:17.040
I mean, it's got a lot of activity around it as well.

00:21:17.362 --> 00:21:18.463
Oh, that's really cool.

00:21:18.463 --> 00:21:26.376
I always feel a lot better if I'm able to bring family with me and there's something they can do while I'm off doing whatever, and maybe I get to see him a time or two.

00:21:26.376 --> 00:21:27.260
It is a loop, right.

00:21:27.402 --> 00:21:27.983
It is a loop.

00:21:27.983 --> 00:21:28.807
Did you say it was a loop?

00:21:28.848 --> 00:21:35.602
Yeah, so you know if you're coming around multiple times, it's nice for them to be able to do something.

00:21:35.602 --> 00:21:38.926
Now, what are the distances that you have available for the race?

00:21:38.926 --> 00:21:39.907
What can I go pick?

00:21:40.588 --> 00:21:42.757
So I've got five of them for you to choose from.

00:21:42.757 --> 00:21:48.330
I've got 5k, a 10k, half marathon, marathon and 50k.

00:21:48.330 --> 00:21:49.493
So I have.

00:21:49.493 --> 00:21:55.817
I think at least one person is running each distance right now with the promise of a lot more, something for everyone to run.

00:21:55.817 --> 00:21:56.597
We have the.

00:21:56.657 --> 00:22:07.946
I had a lot of people ask me you know, I've never done anything like this before, I've never been on a trail, so am I able to go out there and will I have enough time or something Something like that?

00:22:07.946 --> 00:22:15.209
They're worried about it, and part of the great thing about this is sure that any distance you can be fast, you can be competitive.

00:22:15.209 --> 00:22:24.636
But 5K, 10k, half marathon, I mean, or any distance you've never done, this is an opportunity to go out and do it.

00:22:24.636 --> 00:22:29.196
I mean I tell everyone I had someone saying well, do I have enough time to run the 5k?

00:22:29.196 --> 00:22:29.778
I've never done it.

00:22:29.778 --> 00:22:30.980
I said you have 10 hours.

00:22:31.162 --> 00:22:35.337
I mean the 50k is out there from seven in the morning until five o'clock.

00:22:35.337 --> 00:22:35.759
They have.

00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:51.886
I said so you have until five o'clock and I think 10 hours is plenty of time for you to get a 5 or 10K down, and so it's not just for the established trail veteran, it's someone who's out there to try and really just go fast on this course.

00:22:51.886 --> 00:23:00.949
We've got five distances and I think runners of all kinds could do any one of these distances fast, slow, run, walk.

00:23:00.949 --> 00:23:04.224
You've got a pretty decent time limit to get it in there.

00:23:05.557 --> 00:23:09.047
Is it a 10-hour time limit for all races, just a one-off?

00:23:09.047 --> 00:23:12.865
What are the cutoffs, or are there any other than that?

00:23:13.015 --> 00:23:17.394
I've been telling everyone that asks you have as long as the 50K has out there.

00:23:17.394 --> 00:23:20.096
They have until 5 o'clock to wrap it up.

00:23:20.096 --> 00:23:22.898
50k has out there, they have until five o'clock to wrap it up.

00:23:22.898 --> 00:23:27.122
And so if you're running a 5k, 10k, half or a full, I'm going to give you until five o'clock.

00:23:27.122 --> 00:23:32.105
Take your time, take what you need and let's see you get it done.

00:23:32.105 --> 00:23:39.990
I just want to see people set their goals and reach their goals, and I think that would give them a good opportunity to do it Brilliant.

00:23:40.490 --> 00:23:42.432
I think that's a fantastic way to approach it.

00:23:42.432 --> 00:23:48.421
I love that you're just kind of giving everybody the time and space to do their thing.

00:23:48.421 --> 00:23:52.875
Obviously, the listeners to this show are majority back of the pack runners, so to hear.

00:23:52.875 --> 00:24:05.541
This is a race really deliberately designed to accommodate multiple paces, multiple skill levels out there, from a beginner all the way through somebody who wants to crank out a 50k relatively quickly.

00:24:05.541 --> 00:24:06.545
You can do that.

00:24:06.545 --> 00:24:15.036
But you can also take your time, and you should have plenty of time as a back of the packer on any distance to to get to the finish.

00:24:15.036 --> 00:24:28.988
And that's not always the case with races, and especially not for folks like myself where we're not super quick, and there are races that you know are deliberately aggressive on the cutoffs, so it's nice to find one that isn't.

00:24:28.988 --> 00:24:34.566
Yeah, yeah, now you talked about some working with the city potentially.

00:24:34.566 --> 00:24:42.144
What are, what are some of the other logistical challenges you've faced in organizing this race?

00:24:42.986 --> 00:24:49.682
really I, I don't know, maybe I haven't gotten far enough into this or maybe it's just gone really well.

00:24:49.682 --> 00:24:54.358
I I haven't had a lot of nightmares or any hang-ups really yet.

00:24:54.358 --> 00:25:10.325
I mean, one of the first things when I started talking to different people, they're like well, before you do see what the city has to say, see if they're even going to let you put on a race, and so I sent an email to them and told them here's who I am.

00:25:10.325 --> 00:25:12.474
I'm out at this trail all the time.

00:25:12.474 --> 00:25:16.099
I know there used to be a race here and I want to put on one myself.

00:25:16.099 --> 00:25:17.821
And what do you think about that?

00:25:17.821 --> 00:25:26.442
And it didn't take them five minutes to respond and say we're all behind you, we were all for this, do it.

00:25:26.442 --> 00:25:27.656
Oh wow, they said we.

00:25:27.656 --> 00:25:30.919
They told me you know, we used to do a 5k, we used to do a 10k.

00:25:30.919 --> 00:25:33.461
And I told them I know.

00:25:33.461 --> 00:25:36.943
And I said that's great and that's where I want to start, but I want to take it.

00:25:36.943 --> 00:25:43.938
Here's how far I want to take it.

00:25:43.938 --> 00:25:44.780
Here's how far I want to take.

00:25:44.780 --> 00:25:45.984
This to get us started is up to a 50 K.

00:25:46.005 --> 00:25:52.784
And they gave me the green light, asked me what I needed, asked me what they could do and said that we set up a meeting with them, with me, with them, for 45 days out.

00:25:52.784 --> 00:26:02.866
We're going to get together and go over my more detailed plans of what's going to happen on that day and and they said, so we can see if there's also something that we can help you with.

00:26:02.866 --> 00:26:07.659
So I mean, they've been really supportive in this and and just getting it going.

00:26:07.659 --> 00:26:12.616
And as far as I mean even as far as permits, they said I the only permits.

00:26:12.616 --> 00:26:15.124
I really I don't know if I should say this.

00:26:15.124 --> 00:26:32.837
If they hear it, maybe they'll they'll want something out of this, but I had to pay for a pavilion to rent out for the day at the start, finish, and an amplification permit if I want to use a sound system and those were very minimal costs and to use the trail itself.

00:26:32.837 --> 00:26:40.145
They said you're not breaking any city ordinances or any laws, so just have the race.

00:26:40.526 --> 00:26:55.983
And it's uh, it's been so, it's been pretty easy, though, the only thing that I've really asked them about since then was there's two small parking lots, and I was like you know, if those fill up, can I use this other?

00:26:55.983 --> 00:27:01.019
There's some softball fields close by, can I use those and they said you can park on the street.

00:27:01.019 --> 00:27:07.670
As long as traffic can still get by, you can park on both sides of the street.

00:27:07.670 --> 00:27:11.640
So there's plenty of room there.

00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:14.928
And that was the only real concern I had at the beginning.

00:27:14.928 --> 00:27:22.961
But now that they've given me that, okay, we'll have plenty of parking, we'll have plenty of space, and so it's.

00:27:22.961 --> 00:27:26.619
It's been good to get it going and really easy so far.

00:27:26.619 --> 00:27:33.763
Again, knock on wood because they there might be a bunch of hurdles coming that I didn't even know about.

00:27:33.865 --> 00:27:37.537
So that's just part of the joy of doing this for the first time.

00:27:37.537 --> 00:27:54.202
I would think, right like you don't know what you don't know, no, which I think is a fascinating thing to do, and I I mean I give you and anybody else who decides to set up a race massive kudos because it, just from everything I've heard, it isn't necessarily the easiest thing to do and there are a lot of things to think about.

00:27:54.202 --> 00:27:57.275
So, yeah, well done you, first of all for just doing it.

00:27:57.576 --> 00:28:19.265
But yeah, don't worry about I know there's going to be things that I know it's not going to be easy as far as getting everything in place and everything ready to go and the stress of having that day, but right now, the stress of getting it to where it can be put on and being set up, that part that's been, that's been the easy part and so, yeah, I'm, I'm excited about it.

00:28:19.625 --> 00:28:24.030
Did they give you any kind of participant cap at all?

00:28:24.050 --> 00:28:27.523
No, they asked me how many do you think you're planning on?

00:28:27.523 --> 00:28:32.426
I told them, if I had 200 out there, that would be amazing.

00:28:32.426 --> 00:28:36.025
I said if I can get more than that, I will and you will allow it.

00:28:36.025 --> 00:28:40.785
They said you know, they didn't tell me no, so they didn't tell me no.

00:28:40.785 --> 00:28:43.281
So they didn't tell me no and they said 200.

00:28:43.281 --> 00:28:45.421
You know they were okay with that.

00:28:45.421 --> 00:28:46.384
They went along with it.

00:28:46.384 --> 00:28:51.446
And when I said if I could get more out there, I would love to have more, they didn't shut it down.

00:28:52.155 --> 00:28:54.040
So, 200 would be.

00:28:54.040 --> 00:28:56.346
I think that's a pretty lofty goal.

00:28:56.346 --> 00:28:59.319
I'm not expecting to hit it, but if I do, great.

00:29:02.494 --> 00:29:09.116
And if I don't, we just have room to grow so well, brilliant, and we'll do whatever we can to encourage some folks to get up to Denison, texas, and take a look.

00:29:09.116 --> 00:29:12.846
I think that'll make a great road trip from down here in south Texas.

00:29:12.846 --> 00:29:16.184
Oh yeah, get all the way up there and take a swing through the park.

00:29:16.184 --> 00:29:17.992
Now I mean you mentioned there is.

00:29:17.992 --> 00:29:23.518
You've seen more and more people from the local community kind of getting out and running around the park just day to day.

00:29:23.518 --> 00:29:35.445
Have you had any opportunities yet, or do you anticipate maybe any opportunities to sort of engage with that local community throughout the course of either building the event or hosting the event?

00:29:35.445 --> 00:29:41.170
Have you been able yet to corral anybody locally and to whip up some excitement for it?

00:29:41.390 --> 00:29:46.153
Oh yeah, so locally we all follow each other on Strava so I put it out there.

00:29:46.153 --> 00:29:50.577
That was one of the groups.

00:29:50.577 --> 00:29:54.587
I put it out there before I talked to the city and the response was please make this happen.

00:29:54.587 --> 00:29:57.000
You know, we need something like this out here.

00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:01.273
And so they've been, they're all in.

00:30:01.273 --> 00:30:02.698
I mean, they're so excited about it.

00:30:02.698 --> 00:30:06.537
A lot of them are telling me we don't even want to run it, we just want to help you.

00:30:06.537 --> 00:30:07.961
We want this thing to succeed.

00:30:07.961 --> 00:30:14.202
We'll run aid stations, We'll do whatever you need to get this thing rolling and working.

00:30:14.202 --> 00:30:19.201
That's what they want to do, and so they're real supportive, they're excited about it.

00:30:19.201 --> 00:30:30.959
And then I've got some plans in the works to have some group runs out there, put it out on Facebook for surrounding communities or people that might live close enough by that.

00:30:30.959 --> 00:30:40.546
You know they'll drive up on a Saturday and maybe do a lap or two around and just they can see the course and have some group runs and get the community involved with that.

00:30:41.106 --> 00:30:44.724
Yeah, yeah, guerrilla marketing man, that's where it's at Getting people out and around the course word of mouth.

00:30:44.724 --> 00:30:45.088
Getting people excited, getting people to.

00:30:45.088 --> 00:30:46.856
Yeah, yeah, Guerrilla marketing man, that's where it's at Getting people out and around the course word of mouth.

00:30:46.856 --> 00:30:49.262
Getting people excited, getting people to share.

00:30:50.231 --> 00:30:51.414
Yeah, and it's the way to go.

00:30:51.414 --> 00:30:53.058
That's what I was told.

00:30:53.058 --> 00:31:01.394
I was told you know, you've got to be that guy that just starts spamming all of his friends on every social and like you're going to hate it, but you've got to do it.

00:31:01.394 --> 00:31:03.439
And it's so awkward I do.

00:31:03.439 --> 00:31:11.047
I hate doing that and getting in front of my front of a camera and talking, and it's always so awkward.

00:31:11.047 --> 00:31:20.280
And then I'm watching it back and I'm like, oh, this is terrible, why, why would anyone want to come run a race that this guy is the one that they're looking at, encouraging them to come out?

00:31:20.971 --> 00:31:24.078
Then last week I had or a couple of weeks ago I had a blooper where I was.

00:31:24.078 --> 00:31:35.161
I ran past the cave, started to head down the hill and I rolled my ankle right there in the middle of it and just, oh man, you just hear me, you see me videoing and telling people about.

00:31:35.161 --> 00:31:39.694
It's a nice day, I've been pretty quiet, I haven't done a video and oh, I just rolled my ankle.

00:31:39.694 --> 00:31:46.305
I wish I would have kept it rolling from there, but I turned it off and I mean my clone hit the ground.

00:31:46.305 --> 00:31:49.519
I hit the ground and had a good cry for a few minutes.

00:31:51.013 --> 00:31:51.984
Dude, those are the best.

00:31:51.984 --> 00:31:54.679
Oh, yeah, that could go viral and your race sells out.

00:31:54.809 --> 00:31:59.953
I was so mad at myself for shutting it off there when I got up and started moving again.

00:32:00.555 --> 00:32:19.073
you could have kept this going, but yeah, I think people in in the running community and in particular the ultra and trail community, very much appreciate authenticity, yeah, and so those kinds of things just make it seem more real and the fact that you're a runner and stuff happens to you just like it happens to us.

00:32:19.073 --> 00:32:30.174
You know, you're not some elite guy who's out here pushing and peddling some product of some sort and wrapping a race around it just to get eyes on things.

00:32:30.174 --> 00:32:32.059
That kind of stuff really sells.

00:32:32.059 --> 00:32:39.615
So definitely, I mean, I feel the authenticity here and I know you and I have interacted a little bit and you've seen some of the other folks in in the groups too.

00:32:39.615 --> 00:32:43.471
So sure, yeah, but the bloopers, they're the best, they really are.

00:32:44.074 --> 00:32:48.232
I have a lot of them I need to share more of them, I guess.

00:32:48.252 --> 00:32:50.777
Now let's talk about Caveman Endurance a little bit.

00:32:50.777 --> 00:32:55.584
So you set up this company off the back of the Caveman Challenge.

00:33:00.549 --> 00:33:04.260
Yeah, just because the feature of the cave out there, it's so unique and I'm like what could I name a company if I were to start it?

00:33:04.260 --> 00:33:08.276
Unique, and I'm like what could I name a company if I were to start it?

00:33:08.276 --> 00:33:11.066
Not that I don't know how much is, how much this is going to grow or what, what it's going to become.

00:33:11.066 --> 00:33:13.914
I hope that this race at least becomes an annual event.

00:33:13.914 --> 00:33:20.233
I have other ideas to as to what could happen, but I'm like what could I name this and what?

00:33:20.233 --> 00:33:22.457
Yeah, how do I come up with a name?

00:33:22.457 --> 00:33:31.060
And so I again, I, so there's the cave out there, and so throughout this, I mean I AI has been my friend.

00:33:31.871 --> 00:33:47.461
I just typed in what would you name a race, a trail race around a trail that featured a cave and it's and the, and the trail name is Waterloo Lake, and it put caveman, caveman challenge at Waterloo Lake.

00:33:47.809 --> 00:34:06.260
I'm like there we go, done Sold, and so when that came up, I'm like, okay, I feel like I'm out at this trail so much I mean sometimes it's every day of the week it feels like I'm out there, but I'm out there multiple times a week and I just spend so much time out here.

00:34:06.260 --> 00:34:10.400
I'm just and I see this cave, I'm just gonna nickname myself the caveman.

00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:17.782
I know you're probably not supposed to give yourself a nickname, but I did it and uh, so I just picked caveman.

00:34:17.782 --> 00:34:21.235
We have caveman challenge and I'm like okay, caveman endurance.

00:34:21.235 --> 00:34:28.436
Caveman had to have some pretty incredible endurance to survive, and so I felt that was a fitting name.

00:34:28.436 --> 00:34:38.563
And again, when it was time to come up for a logo, went right back to AI and typed in let me see a trail running caveman.

00:34:38.563 --> 00:34:47.043
And it spit out the logo that we have for Caveman Endurance, and I was pretty pumped when they came up with it.

00:34:47.043 --> 00:34:51.016
It's been one that people have complimented, and so AI did a good job.

00:34:51.016 --> 00:34:52.583
It's a pretty kick-ass logo.

00:34:52.643 --> 00:35:00.809
To be honest, folks, If you go out to the website which we'll put in the show notes here so that you can go take a look but it's a really cool logo.

00:35:00.809 --> 00:35:03.739
I definitely want that on a hat or a T-shirt or something.

00:35:03.739 --> 00:35:06.414
It's very cool and, I think, very appropriate.

00:35:06.414 --> 00:35:09.902
I mean it looks like a trail runner, whether it's the caveman or not.

00:35:09.902 --> 00:35:19.001
I mean I think there's a lot of similarities between how cavemen look and a lot of trail runners I've seen, including myself, especially halfway through a hundred mile race.

00:35:19.001 --> 00:35:19.911
So I think that's brilliant.

00:35:19.911 --> 00:35:21.813
And you know what, Jeff?

00:35:21.813 --> 00:35:27.385
If caveman is as bad as it gets for your trail name, I think you're doing pretty good.

00:35:27.385 --> 00:35:31.277
I landed with Tater Tits, so I mean you're way ahead of me.

00:35:31.277 --> 00:35:32.512
Landed with what was that?

00:35:32.512 --> 00:35:32.773
Again?

00:35:32.773 --> 00:35:39.077
Tater Tits, oh, Instead of Tater Tots, and you'll have to go listen to the episode.

00:35:39.077 --> 00:35:40.039
That that's all about.

00:35:40.710 --> 00:35:42.257
I was going to say I did listen to this.

00:35:42.257 --> 00:35:44.213
Yep, I heard the story, oh yeah.

00:35:44.632 --> 00:35:54.755
Yeah, so definitely I think you're ahead of me on the trail name with Caveman, but I love it and it is a really cool logo, so you should definitely go check that out.

00:35:54.936 --> 00:36:06.679
Look out for the hats, look out for the shirts, because I've got that in the works and so hopefully we'll have that soon and we'll definitely have them for race shirts and some sort of design from that.

00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:10.704
I'm also trying to get some hats produced, so we'll have them out there.

00:36:11.385 --> 00:36:25.175
Now I'm going to take you back for a moment, because you mentioned that you've already started thinking about some other races you might want to put on, whether or not they're under the Caveman Endurance banner, whether or not they're at Waterloo Lake, I don't know, and that's what I'm going to ask.

00:36:25.175 --> 00:36:28.728
What else are you interested in doing with caveman endurance?

00:36:28.728 --> 00:36:34.811
What other races do you have that you're like yeah, I gotta do one of these well, like I said, I I really like the time formats.

00:36:35.652 --> 00:36:42.072
I don't know that I would do like 100 hours or anything that crazy right off the to jump right into it.

00:36:42.072 --> 00:37:09.695
But the town I grew up in in the colony which is just outside of Dallas, there they have a lake and they have a trail that runs right along the shore of the lake and it's four miles long, and so I thought you could have a start finish at one side, an aid station there, a start finish at the other end and just cut loose with the time on that and do different timed events there four hours, six hours, up to 24 hours.

00:37:09.695 --> 00:37:10.958
I would think somewhere in that.

00:37:10.958 --> 00:37:12.161
But those are the kind of.

00:37:12.161 --> 00:37:14.934
That's one of the things that I'm I've thought about.

00:37:15.536 --> 00:37:19.106
There's a couple of other trails that are close by.

00:37:19.106 --> 00:37:21.152
I haven't gone to check them out yet.

00:37:21.152 --> 00:37:31.063
I know one is added on a few more miles here recently and I need to get out there and and check it out and see if it how, how big this trail is.

00:37:31.063 --> 00:37:43.793
It used to just be a couple miles, but I think there's six or six or so miles out there now and I think there's some other people that might be looking at it, so I don't want to say it out loud they probably don't listen to this show.

00:37:43.813 --> 00:37:44.675
It's unlikely, but you never know, I suppose.

00:37:44.675 --> 00:37:44.976
But no, I don't.

00:37:44.976 --> 00:37:45.860
They probably don't listen to this show.

00:37:45.860 --> 00:37:47.530
It's unlikely, but you never know, I suppose.

00:37:47.590 --> 00:37:53.490
But no, I don't know for sure that I don't have anything set in stone as to where this will go.

00:37:53.490 --> 00:37:59.811
I definitely want to do this one every year and have this one set every year, and then I would like to have.

00:37:59.811 --> 00:38:02.655
I'm not trying to make a full-time job out of this.

00:38:02.655 --> 00:38:06.923
This is just a side hustle and just something that I want to see.

00:38:06.923 --> 00:38:20.237
I want to see other people achieving their goals, and so I would love to see two or three races two, three, four races, one a quarter maybe that would be good, something like that.

00:38:20.237 --> 00:38:23.201
Just need to find a location that someone's not using.

00:38:23.201 --> 00:38:24.565
That's hard to do.

00:38:24.565 --> 00:38:34.789
There's races everywhere, every trail that I know someone's already on it and I don't want to step on anyone else's toes, but just go right over the top, jim, don't worry about it, don't worry about it, okay.

00:38:35.050 --> 00:38:36.875
No worry, man, just go around no, I'm kidding.

00:38:37.016 --> 00:38:38.179
I think that's the right approach.

00:38:38.179 --> 00:38:43.659
Yeah, you got to be sensitive to other people who have races out there successful races in some degree.

00:38:43.659 --> 00:38:44.440
But oh, yeah, maybe.

00:38:44.822 --> 00:38:54.081
I mean, there's often time maybe they're looking to hand it off to somebody else, or maybe they're looking about you know for a way out and you might be able to roll in and help them out a little bit.

00:38:54.081 --> 00:38:59.800
Yeah, yeah, now just checking on ultra sign up before we were chatting.

00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:07.916
It looks like you've got at least one person on every race and a couple of people on the 50K, so you're off and running.

00:39:07.916 --> 00:39:12.181
The date of this race is October, I think you mentioned correct.

00:39:12.329 --> 00:39:16.559
Yes, October 12th, saturday, october 12th, from 7 to 5.

00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:20.780
50k starts at 7 and then every race starts 10 minutes.

00:39:20.780 --> 00:39:22.996
10-minute increment starts after that.

00:39:22.996 --> 00:39:26.534
I can't wait, I and I can't wait.

00:39:26.534 --> 00:39:28.657
I mean I know there's I say I can't wait.

00:39:28.657 --> 00:39:35.266
I know there's going to be so much that I'm going to be freaking out about here in the near future, but I'm so excited about it.

00:39:35.989 --> 00:39:37.391
Are you doing this by yourself?

00:39:37.391 --> 00:39:40.936
Do you have a mentor in the race directing world, or how are you?

00:39:40.936 --> 00:39:42.938
Is this just purely Jeff going for it?

00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:50.918
So I've talked mostly with Rob from formerly from Trot, and so I spoke with him the most.

00:39:50.918 --> 00:39:57.652
And then there's a couple others that I've talked with briefly and a couple of just trying to find out.

00:39:57.652 --> 00:40:06.722
You know, get a variety of where do you get metals, where do you get this, where do you, who do you suggest for that?

00:40:06.722 --> 00:40:19.181
And but as far as planning and getting everything in place, I would say I probably talked to rob the most and text him uh often and just questions, try not to bug him too much.

00:40:19.181 --> 00:40:24.554
But he said you know he, he told me going into it, he's like hey, he said I.

00:40:24.554 --> 00:40:26.900
I think you can do good with this.

00:40:26.900 --> 00:40:27.802
You can do great with this.

00:40:27.802 --> 00:40:37.844
He said you got a good opportunity and just pick a weekend where you don't see much else is going on within a certain distance from you.

00:40:37.844 --> 00:40:47.139
And I found not a lot was going on around me in October, on October 12th, and he said and then just put on a good race.

00:40:47.139 --> 00:40:48.552
He said just don't suck.

00:40:49.193 --> 00:40:56.057
He said you don't suck, you'll get people out there and you'll get people back, and so that's, that's pretty, pretty easy and sound advice.

00:40:56.057 --> 00:41:00.855
So I'm just trying not to suck, I guess yeah, aren't we all?

00:41:01.034 --> 00:41:03.400
and that's really where rob started, I think he was.

00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:12.556
His was one race down at brass's bend, I think originally, and and everything else the whole trail racing over Texas grew and grew from that.

00:41:12.635 --> 00:41:33.358
So I think there's every chance Cave Ultra Sign Up, and he told me how to get going with that and what each step to take and what to do, and so he's been a big help in getting everything started and established.

00:41:33.358 --> 00:41:35.182
So shout out to Rob.

00:41:35.849 --> 00:41:36.952
Shout out to Rob.

00:41:36.952 --> 00:41:41.762
Mr Rob Goyen, indeed, formerly of Trot Trail Racing Over Texas.

00:41:41.762 --> 00:41:47.128
Now you have done what a lot of people think about doing.

00:41:47.128 --> 00:41:48.231
I mean I've done it.

00:41:48.231 --> 00:41:57.911
I'm sure other people, as they're running around whatever race they're running in their local park, are like we've got to have a race here and most of us never get around to doing that.

00:41:57.911 --> 00:42:00.880
But you did, and so kudos to you for doing that.

00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:05.398
Do you have any advice for those listening that are like I really want to.

00:42:05.398 --> 00:42:06.976
I really want to, but I just don't know.

00:42:06.976 --> 00:42:14.978
What advice would you have for those of us listening that really want to start a race and put something on in their local spot?

00:42:15.820 --> 00:42:24.163
Really, I would just say, if you've got an idea and you've got the space to do it, then do one, or see what it would take to do one.

00:42:24.163 --> 00:42:37.280
Just start the conversation with the city and see what their thoughts are, or with whoever the land management is that you've got to talk with, find out if it's even something that's worth going after.

00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:41.539
If they give you the okay or if they tell you no, we don't think that's a good idea.

00:42:41.539 --> 00:42:45.405
I would just say, if you've got an idea and you've got a passion about doing it, you have the ability or you don't have the ability.

00:42:45.405 --> 00:42:45.677
I don't think that's a good idea.

00:42:45.677 --> 00:42:48.684
I would just say, if you've got an idea and you've got a passion about doing it, you have the ability or you don't have the ability.

00:42:48.684 --> 00:42:55.659
I don't know if I do or not, but I have a passion about it and I just I know that if I, I just needed to do it.

00:42:55.659 --> 00:42:58.132
I wanted to do it and I'm just taking a chance on it.

00:42:58.132 --> 00:43:01.617
It's it's just like I would tell any anyone wanting to run a race.

00:43:01.617 --> 00:43:05.344
You know, I want to do a 5k and I don't know if I can.

00:43:05.344 --> 00:43:10.199
Well, you're never going to know what you can do until you try to try doing it.

00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:13.150
Yeah, I, I could fall flat on my face with this.

00:43:13.150 --> 00:43:20.891
I I don't think I'm going to, but it's a possibility and but I'm, I'm gonna love it every step of the way.

00:43:21.152 --> 00:43:32.076
I can tell you that and, and so that's what I would tell someone is, you know, find out is to start the conversation, get the conversation rolling.

00:43:32.076 --> 00:43:32.858
Find out if there's an opportunity.

00:43:32.858 --> 00:43:34.583
If you find out there is, start asking questions.

00:43:34.583 --> 00:43:36.931
I mean, I don't know anything about this.

00:43:36.931 --> 00:43:47.440
I've already said that, and so the first thing I did after talking to people about doing this and talking to the city was I started asking questions.

00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:48.853
Okay, what do I do now?

00:43:48.853 --> 00:43:49.938
What's the next step?

00:43:49.938 --> 00:43:55.974
I'm sure that I'm going to drive some people crazy, that Rob might start ignoring texts.

00:43:55.974 --> 00:43:59.362
I don't know, he may not answer a phone call.

00:43:59.362 --> 00:44:00.672
He's like this guy again.

00:44:00.913 --> 00:44:06.192
So just be humble about it and just know that you're going into something, that you don't know what you're doing.

00:44:06.192 --> 00:44:11.692
Just find out how to do it from someone who does and just start making your way through.

00:44:11.692 --> 00:44:18.291
It's, it's been, it's been a good process so far and so, uh, but I would say, take a chance.

00:44:18.291 --> 00:44:21.717
I would say, if you've got the opportunity, take a chance, do it.

00:44:21.717 --> 00:44:22.918
You don't have to do anything huge.

00:44:22.918 --> 00:44:23.119
Huge.

00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:31.204
Just if you, if you've got a trail or you've got a road that you want to put a race on or a park, start with a 5k.

00:44:31.204 --> 00:44:39.204
I mean, start with a community 5k people will come and sign up for that 5k, 10k and then see where you want to go from there.

00:44:39.204 --> 00:44:40.494
I think that's the way.

00:44:40.755 --> 00:44:47.697
That's the way I would do it and that's what I would encourage anyone else to do yeah, your passion definitely comes through, so I don't think there's going to be a miss on that.

00:44:47.697 --> 00:45:00.739
And, generally speaking, I think people, especially in our space here, are pretty open to helping and giving if they can be of assistance, so I don't think anyone would withhold help.

00:45:01.059 --> 00:45:07.635
No, no help, no, no, I haven't found anyone yet.

00:45:07.635 --> 00:45:08.197
That's turned me away.

00:45:08.217 --> 00:45:10.208
And I've asked a question and they said no, I'm not going to, you know, figure it out on your own.

00:45:10.228 --> 00:45:10.429
No, they've.

00:45:10.429 --> 00:45:17.472
They answer the question and they some of them offer assistance in any way that they can, and so it's a.

00:45:17.472 --> 00:45:25.164
I mean, that's what I love about the trail running community that's part of why I want to do this too is because we have this trail here in Denison.

00:45:25.164 --> 00:45:51.402
I want to get some local people who have never even been on that trail to come out and, as they come out, to get some of the trail community that I'm involved in to introduce them to that and say here's this group of people, and this is a great group of people to be around, and you'll develop friendships, you'll develop bonds while you're out here, and they'll push you to do things that you didn't think were possible for you.

00:45:51.402 --> 00:46:03.518
They'll encourage you to get through things that you don't think you're going to get through, and we just want to see each other, you know, succeed and reach those next milestones, and that's that's part of why I want to do this.

00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:09.940
So yeah, I think, I think it's pretty fantastic and I love that you're taking a chance in getting out there and doing it.

00:46:09.940 --> 00:46:11.833
So, again, kudos to you.

00:46:11.833 --> 00:46:14.057
I think that's really, really awesome.

00:46:14.057 --> 00:46:24.978
Now, another thing that's awesome One of my favorite bits of each interview is that we do encourage guests that come on the show here to pick a song to add to the free Spotify.

00:46:24.978 --> 00:46:29.958
Choose to Enjoy song playlist Something usually family friendly.

00:46:29.958 --> 00:46:35.757
Maybe it lifts you up, motivates you or just kind of gets your butt moving while you're out on the trail.

00:46:35.757 --> 00:46:41.414
Now, Jeff, you want to tell us what song you picked and why it resonates with you.

00:46:41.894 --> 00:46:44.820
So I picked Don't Stop Me Now by Queen.

00:46:44.820 --> 00:47:05.538
I don't know, I go through so many different playlists you could ask me this a month from now and I'll probably give you a different answer and I'm all over the genres of what you would, you know, different ones but that was a playlist that I went through here recently, Just got on a kick where I don't know.

00:47:05.538 --> 00:47:17.097
I was just out on the trail one day and before I started I turned Spotify on and, for whatever reason, the Queen playlist popped right up and I said let's just give it a listen.

00:47:17.097 --> 00:47:27.144
And I mean, I found that I don't know, my pace and the rhythm of the songs just kept me.

00:47:27.144 --> 00:47:36.923
It was one of the best runs I've had in a long time, and so it seemed like every song I was just adjusting my pace to the tempo and the beats that were there Brilliant.

00:47:36.923 --> 00:47:40.000
And then, I don't know, for some reason, that one just stood out to me.

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:44.541
So when I saw that you were asking for songs, it was like don't stop me now.

00:47:44.769 --> 00:47:52.858
I mean, I'm having a good time, you know what a great message to carry through your altar in the middle of a race right don't stop me, because I'm having a great time.

00:47:52.858 --> 00:47:56.724
I mean just a kick ass song in it's own right.

00:47:56.724 --> 00:47:58.050
I mean it's a classic tune.

00:47:58.050 --> 00:47:59.896
It's highly relevant to what we do.

00:47:59.896 --> 00:48:01.130
It's very upbeat.

00:48:01.130 --> 00:48:03.414
It's tough to beat Queen, isn't't it?

00:48:03.414 --> 00:48:04.277
Generally speaking, oh, it is.

00:48:04.958 --> 00:48:07.182
Yeah, I think they'll be relevant forever.

00:48:07.989 --> 00:48:19.922
Yeah, freddie Mercury gets my vote for best band frontman of all time, and if anyone wants to change my mind out there, put it in the comments if you disagree and tell me why.

00:48:19.922 --> 00:48:22.867
But in my book, freddie Mercury best frontman.

00:48:23.150 --> 00:48:26.422
I've got your back on this one, but in my book Freddie Mercury best front man.

00:48:26.503 --> 00:48:27.367
I've got your back on this one.

00:48:27.367 --> 00:48:30.056
Yeah, I just think I don't know if there's I mean there is good singers that might even be better singers, I don't know.

00:48:30.056 --> 00:48:35.221
I mean he was pretty kick ass at that too, but sure, just the whole thing with Freddie is just the best.

00:48:35.369 --> 00:48:36.072
Yeah, anyway, yeah.

00:48:36.373 --> 00:48:37.856
If you disagree, listen.

00:48:37.856 --> 00:48:39.641
I'm quite happy to hear you out.

00:48:39.641 --> 00:48:41.396
Shoot me a note and let me know why.

00:48:41.396 --> 00:48:54.079
In the meantime, we'll definitely get that Queen song added to the playlist so that other folks out there can enjoy it, jeff, as much as you do.

00:48:54.099 --> 00:49:14.547
I really hope this chat has given you guys listening a great insight into Jeff as a person and as a new race director, his ideas and his vision for the new Caveman Endurance Race Company and the brand new Caveman Challenge Race coming this October, october 12th, just as the cool weather starts setting in.

00:49:14.547 --> 00:49:19.097
So you can start to put a plan in place, put it on your race calendar now.

00:49:19.097 --> 00:49:36.699
For us here in the South I don't know quotes here in the south, I don't know quotes Particularly that looks like a great time to put a race on your calendar, kind of coming out of a more dormant summer, getting back into some racing here for the fall, winter and spring season, and this race will just kick it off beautifully, I think.

00:49:36.699 --> 00:49:40.934
So get out on Ultra Signup or on the website and give it a look.

00:49:40.934 --> 00:49:51.402
I will, of course, drop and link the Caveman Endurance website in the show notes below If you want to go check out the races.

00:49:52.224 --> 00:49:53.507
It is a super cool logo.

00:49:53.507 --> 00:49:56.518
It hits you right in the face when you get on the website.

00:49:56.518 --> 00:49:57.422
There it's fantastic.

00:49:57.422 --> 00:50:08.356
While you're out on the internet checking that out, don't forget to subscribe to this show, get notified each time a new episode comes out and, of course, follow, share and like.

00:50:08.356 --> 00:50:10.903
That would be very much appreciated.

00:50:10.903 --> 00:50:24.701
Doing any of those things really does help with the algorithms, which, in turn, helps get the word out and increases the chances of other runners finding the information that awesome guests like Jeff have to share.

00:50:24.701 --> 00:50:39.103
You can find us on Instagram, facebook and over at choosetoeendurecom, so be sure to head over to any of those spots and check us out, say hello, drop us a message, suggest a topic If you have a moment.

00:50:39.103 --> 00:50:41.775
I really love getting those interactions.

00:50:41.775 --> 00:50:49.119
Until then, be like a caveman, run long, run strong and keep actively choosing to endure.